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I graduated from the "integrated" schools of Charlotte, before the busing stopped in the late 90's. Even though the schools are supposedly integrated, the classrooms were not. The advanced/AG/AP classes were, for the most part, white and asian kids from well-to-do families. The regular classes were, for the most part, black and latino, or white kids from families that didn't value education that much. The best and most experienced teachers, for the most part, taught the advanced/AG/AP classes while the less experienced teachers taught the regular classes. If the school is integrated, but the classrooms aren't, then what's the point of forcing kids to ride a bus across town? It didn't make sense to me then, and it still doesn't make sense to me today. It's just a political shell game to try to make something seem like something it's not.
Retired HS English teacher, I can attest to this, myself. Like cow's milk, the cream rises to the top.
My career was largely at the HS level, although I am certified K-12, and have considerable experience in middle schools as well. The last seven to ten years of my tenure, the high schools were looking into programs to meet the needs of the kids who wanted to rise to the top -- one such program was AVID, a program from the Midwest that has had marked, measurable successes with such students. It is one, however, that students and their families must buy into, and one that requires the students to do the work to improve their situation and status.
Interestingly enough, targeted populations differ. Across town, the Black inner-city students eagerly participated in AVID, while other lower socio-economic students (generally white) from the poorer, more rural areas of the county, saw little value in a good education, and did not accept the idea that a good education was the means to a better life.
It is programs like AVID (but maybe not necessarily this one) that need to be implemented in the schools where the students will participate and benefit. Such programs may differ from school to school. Teachers in poor-performing schools need to have vested interests in the school, its mission, and the students, and not just be there collecting a better paycheck for the few years they feel they can afford the challenge. It is not necessarily true that a school's best teachers are with the best students -- the best students are relatively easy to teach, believe it or not, unless, as a teacher, one is just incompetent. Poor teachers in poor classrooms is a prerequisite for failure.
Consider the successes of many inner-city schools, and charter schools. There is something they are doing right.
The county does provide a means for an education. At the end of the day, it is the parents/local community who have the responsibility.
IMHO, the line of thinking that government, whether local or federal, has responsibility for our lives is a huge problem for our country.
Ok so in your line of thinking, kids fail school, join gangs and become criminals is also not a government problem. Are you suggesting get rid of police and jails and arm everybody with guns? Wake up now. This is 21st century and not 18th!
Ok so in your line of thinking, kids fail school, join gangs and become criminals is also not a government problem. Are you suggesting get rid of police and jails and arm everybody with guns? Wake up now. This is 21st century and not 18th!
Wow, that is a lot of pressure to put on a school system and parents of children who will not be joining gangs.
Frankly, I don't follow what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting that if suburban kids go to school with inner city kids, these at-risk kids will magically transform? Are you living in la la land?
It has been stated time and time again that when you forcibly integrate you create a school within a school. The suburban kids, for the most part, associate with other suburban kids.
Welcome to my 21st century, the land of reality.
Good day comrade.
...one such program was AVID, a program from the Midwest that has had marked, measurable successes with such students. It is one, however, that students and their families must buy into, and one that requires the students to do the work to improve their situation and status...It is programs like AVID (but maybe not necessarily this one) that need to be implemented in the schools where the students will participate and benefit. ...
Some of our schools here have AVID. They combine mentoring with special sessions & oppportunities for socializing for kids who come from backgrounds where education had not been particularly valued. I know a mom whose child has been in the program for 2 years and she and her daughter are so pleased with it. Her daughter is really smart and motivated but it was hard for her socially. Through AVID she has been able to build a strong group of friendships with like-minded kids. The program helps the mom, too, since she often does not know how to support her daughter in her academic endeavors. BTW the school in question is Wake Forest-Rolesville Middle.
The county does provide a means for an education. At the end of the day, it is the parents/local community who have the responsibility.
IMHO, the line of thinking that government, whether local or federal, has responsibility for our lives is a huge problem for our country.
That is an excuse... not a "fix" that Sanyantsi talks about in this post:
"If certain areas are problematic, all city-wide busing does is spread the problem out rather than concentrate it where fixes can be focused best."
I hear this sentiment over and over but NO ONE talks about the FIX.
Under George W. Bush No Child Left Behind REQUIRED states take responsibility that ALL students learn at grade level. While some of the penalties have been rolled back by Obama, it is STILL LAW that states get all students performing at grade level. IF counties and states aren't pursuing this goal then they are breaking the law, plain and simple.
So while you might want to sit back and say it's not the government's responsibility but instead it's the parent's, the LAW says otherwise. So either ALL of NCLB gets repealed or we as a community abide by the law and find solutions.
So WHAT is the fix? That's what I REALLY want to know. I read education reform books and tons of internet sites on this topic and I have yet to find a fix. So if somebody in Wake County knows the solution, I sure the heck want to hear it so I can move onto that stack of fiction books on my bedside table.
Last edited by PDXmom; 03-26-2010 at 10:03 AM..
Reason: typo
This is the dumbest thing I've read about the school situation. You could live in an apartment, a townhouse, or a rental. It does not cost $200k to send your kid to a school in that area.
Oh I don't know about that. There have been some pretty dumb things posted about the school situation. I certainly don't think mine takes the cake. Then again, maybe you are using a different criteria? I'm not interested in political theater myself.
That is an excuse... not a "fix" that Sanyantsi talks about in this post:
"If certain areas are problematic, all city-wide busing does is spread the problem out rather than concentrate it where fixes can be focused best."
I hear this sentiment over and over but NO ONE talks about the FIX.
Under George W. Bush No Child Left Behind REQUIRED states take responsibility that ALL students learn at grade level. While some of the penalties have been rolled back by Obama, it is STILL LAW that states get all students performing at grade level. IF counties and states aren't pursuing this goal then they are breaking the law, plain and simple.
So while you might want to sit back and say it's not the government's responsibility but instead it's the parent's, the LAW says otherwise. So either ALL of NCLB gets repealed or we as a community abide by the law and find solutions.
So WHAT is the fix? That's what I REALLY want to know. I read education reform books and tons of internet sites on this topic and I have yet to find a fix. So if somebody in Wake County knows the solution, I sure the heck want to hear it so I can move onto that stack of fiction books on my bedside table.
If it is an excuse, it isn't mine. The best that you can do as a parent is teach your children the value of the educational opportunity they have and instill in them a sense of responsibility for their own actions.
I don't have a FIX. It seems that nobody has been able to come up with a FIX. I can tell you one thing though, I am not going to let the government take responsibility for my childrens education.
I think this is the way advocates of reform (the new Board) might frame it:
If disadvantaged students under-perform under a diversity-based assignment model, and will equally under-perform under a community-based assignment model, then there is no loss from moving to community schools, and in fact a net gain because of a benefit to (non-disadvantaged) students and families who no longer have to be bussed. They might say that clearly there needs to be a fix, but busing isn't/hasn't been it.
(I'm not arguing that - just framing what I think to be their core argument.)
I just got a phone poll asking me about my opinion of the new school boards actions.
They asked about:
A high school that was started, but then had construction halted on the orders of the new board. Would I support the decision even if it cost X millions of dollars to start a build at another location.
If I thought the rescission of the diversity policy would cause segregation of schools.
If the new policy (neighborhood schools) resulted in increased taxes would I still support it.
There were a few others about demographic information and if I had children in the schools currently.
I think this is the way advocates of reform (the new Board) might frame it:
If disadvantaged students under-perform under a diversity-based assignment model, and will equally under-perform under a community-based assignment model, then there is no loss from moving to community schools, and in fact a net gain because of a benefit to (non-disadvantaged) students and families who no longer have to be bussed. They might say that clearly there needs to be a fix, but busing isn't/hasn't been it.
(I'm not arguing that - just framing what I think to be their core argument.)
CH - I always enjoy your posts. I see what you are getting at here. But this is only one dimension, and why I have such a problem with the new members. They say they have the solution but it's only a solution for some - who already live in a neighborhood that has good schools and ppl higher on the socioeconomic scale.
What about the kids who are not disadvantaged (black and white and other middle class) but live in an area that is next to a lower socioeconomic one? If they are the 10% or so in a neighborhood school that is majority underperforming kids in the new system, because it's in their catchment area, what kind of environment is it for them? Intervention for underperformers will be there b/c of NCLB, but the environment will still be less than desirable.
As for moving poorer kids, I can't help but wonder if we will be throwing some kids to the wolves who are on the cusp right now. Taken out of a positive environ and put amongst majority of kids who see no value in their education might just be enough to pull these children down too. We all know how peer pressure is.
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