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How much larger is Chapel Hill/Carrboro? This schedule can make a lot of sense the issue becomes the late start time for extracurricular activities especially high school Fall sports as the days start to shorten.
Good point - I hadn't factored in after-school activities.
yeah, we stopped letting our kids ride the bus when the bus started arriving home around 40 minutes--not a typo--after school let out in the afternoon. The school is 2 miles down the road.
Yeah when I was in high school it was a 2 mile walk home and about 1:15 minute ride via bus (I was in upstate NY).
That's how it's set up in Chapel Hill/Carrboro - the elementary schools start first (7:50 -2:30), then middle (8:20 - 3:10), and the high schools last (8:45 - 3:50).
....and then you'll get high school parents complaining that the schedule cuts into their kids' after-school activities, sports, jobs or babysitting of younger siblings.
With a three-tiered bus system, it's a balancing act with at least one group of parents (ES, MS HS) unhappy.
....and then you'll get high school parents complaining that the schedule cuts into their kids' after-school activities, sports, jobs or babysitting of younger siblings.
With a three-tiered bus system, it's a balancing act with at least one group of parents (ES, MS HS) unhappy.
Yup and while the school system might be willing to spend the money to avoid it the Commissioners might not be willing to come up with the money in any budget year much less this one. Teachers can be lukewarm to it as it takes money away from compensation. Also it can create issues for high school teachers/parents who won't be home when their kids get there. May be easy to provide before school care over after school care. Also it changes who drives home in rush hour etc etc. It is a change in school culture and you would need to lead people into it. Not sure the current state of the Wake administration and board is ready for that.
That's how it's set up in Chapel Hill/Carrboro - the elementary schools start first (7:50 -2:30), then middle (8:20 - 3:10), and the high schools last (8:45 - 3:50).
Seems like it would cost the same - just a mirror image of the more typical schedule.
That's generally how it works in the districts that do it. I taught in a very large school district (Fairfax County, outside of DC), and they've had a tiered bus schedule since the beginning of time. When I moved away, there was the beginnings of conversation about flipping the start and end times, but I doubt it's actually been implemented.
I see your point, TuborgP, but I do disagree with some aspects of what you've said. It's not whether the teachers will "forego compensation" (it really shouldn't affect salary issues if they're already doing a tiered system), and it's more a factor of whether the community is willing to do it. In general, we teachers typically want what is in the ultimate best interests of the kids, even if it isn't popular or convenient. For example: year-round schools, which are a major pain for a lot of families (including my own, since I have stepchildren who spend summers with us), but are much superior from an academic standpoint.
Any kind of change is hard, particularly when dealing with family life. There's no perfect system when it comes to this kind of thing, but there are ways to find what is the best cost/benefit ratio in the overall.
That's generally how it works in the districts that do it. I taught in a very large school district (Fairfax County, outside of DC), and they've had a tiered bus schedule since the beginning of time. When I moved away, there was the beginnings of conversation about flipping the start and end times, but I doubt it's actually been implemented.
I see your point, TuborgP, but I do disagree with some aspects of what you've said. It's not whether the teachers will "forego compensation" (it really shouldn't affect salary issues if they're already doing a tiered system), and it's more a factor of whether the community is willing to do it. In general, we teachers typically want what is in the ultimate best interests of the kids, even if it isn't popular or convenient. For example: year-round schools, which are a major pain for a lot of families (including my own, since I have stepchildren who spend summers with us), but are much superior from an academic standpoint.
Any kind of change is hard, particularly when dealing with family life. There's no perfect system when it comes to this kind of thing, but there are ways to find what is the best cost/benefit ratio in the overall.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. Going to a tier system SAVES money. Not going to a tier system during rapid growth creates the cost factor. I am familiar with Fairfax and they went through the growing pains and still are that Wake is. With the budget being tight and possible layoffs looming once again will it be staff retained or more buses? Thats why I bring in the salary component. As you well know personnel costs are the largest part of the budget.
That's generally how it works in the districts that do it. I taught in a very large school district (Fairfax County, outside of DC), and they've had a tiered bus schedule since the beginning of time. When I moved away, there was the beginnings of conversation about flipping the start and end times, but I doubt it's actually been implemented.
I see your point, TuborgP, but I do disagree with some aspects of what you've said. It's not whether the teachers will "forego compensation" (it really shouldn't affect salary issues if they're already doing a tiered system), and it's more a factor of whether the community is willing to do it. In general, we teachers typically want what is in the ultimate best interests of the kids, even if it isn't popular or convenient. For example: year-round schools, which are a major pain for a lot of families (including my own, since I have stepchildren who spend summers with us), but are much superior from an academic standpoint.
Any kind of change is hard, particularly when dealing with family life. There's no perfect system when it comes to this kind of thing, but there are ways to find what is the best cost/benefit ratio in the overall.
The following link you might find interesting. The use of the word WAKE is not Wake county but short for Worried About Keeping Extra-curricular activities. It is a citizen site from you old stomping grounds in Fairfax. Some good links within as you say change is difficult and will meet resistance. home (wakefairfax)
Just look at the need to stagger school starting times to keep transportation costs in check. By tiering times you enable buses to make multiple runs and reducing the costs for new buses and drivers. It is an inevitable part of growth and fiscal constraint. You either start elementary schools later or high schools earlier. You can only have students out so early waiting for buses etc etc etc.
Driver starts and completes a high school run and then heads out on their elementary or late middle school route.
In Orange Co, they have had to do that but they did the opposite:
Elementary goes in prior to middle, with High school students going in at 8:45. Has worked very well, for the students and budgeting.
I agree with TeacherAmy, too many studies have shown how teenagers are wired differently (as if we needed a study to show that!) and perform better when beginning the day later. Plus there are other advantages for those teens, who can opt to take advantage of Zero Class periods, and/or tutoring times. That's more necessary at the high school level than at the elementary age. Just seems, imho, that Wake Co is getting it all backwards.
In Orange Co, they have had to do that but they did the opposite:
Elementary goes in prior to middle, with High school students going in at 8:45. Has worked very well, for the students and budgeting.
I agree with TeacherAmy, too many studies have shown how teenagers are wired differently (as if we needed a study to show that!) and perform better when beginning the day later. Plus there are other advantages for those teens, who can opt to take advantage of Zero Class periods, and/or tutoring times. That's more necessary at the high school level than at the elementary age. Just seems, imho, that Wake Co is getting it all backwards.
High school starting later makes all the sense as you say. Just imagine 1st period starting 7:15-7:30 and the Algebra One class. Yeah really focused for Joe average. However on the other hand students with Attention Deficit Disorder do better earlier than later in the school day and their parents don't want them taking Algebra at 3:00 or any academic class. Kids are different and what works best for the average student might not for others.
Actually I have a child who is ADD, and he didn't perform well in any first period class, but did in the 2nd and 3rd periods. 4th on the other hand was another matter...but that was true for all the kids! lol! They couldn't contain themselves anymore at that point. (by the way, this was on a 90 minutes schedule). Kids are different, and what works best for one (not saying "average", mind you) may not work for next one. That's why it is so hard for the teachers, and I advocate for the learning styles method.
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