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In a perfect world I guess every crime and every injustice would get equal attention and all of us would be equally incensed at the flaws and imperfections of our systems. I don't think we have to beat ourselves (or each other) up because were not all as upset (or knowledgeable) about one situation or another. Social and political change usually comes about because some cases do get more attention than others (yes, often those involving white, attractive, wealthy, etc. victims) - these cases serve to highlight the problems and become the representative for the other injustices that occur.
Members of an in-group always have nice little rationalizations as to why bias doesn't exist or that it isn't really as bad as people make it out to be.
I'm just curious -- do you not think it was rabid, over-the-top vitriol when the Black Panthers visited Durham to lend their support to poor little Ms. Mangum?
First, a little background: several posts were deleted, so some of my comments are replies to comments that no longer exist. If something I said doesn't make sense, this is why.
Second--can you answer my original question? I'd appreciate it. The Panthers have NOTHING to do with ANYTHING I have said. We are talking about two court cases where people were wrongly accused. No one is talking about the Black Panthers. I feel like that was a red herring you threw out to get this off track and avoid dealing with the subject. If I remember correctly, it was a handful of "Panthers" who showed up, and many people wanted them to leave. Mangum herself said she didn't want them involved. As far as I'm concerned, they are irrelevant to this conversation. As for my feelings, YES I wanted them to leave ASAP, as I felt they added to what quickly became a circus atmosphere.
I am just pointing this out. Can we all agree that these two cases were spotlighted differently? If everybody is "equally upset" when ANYBODY is mistreated--then why isn't anybody in here upset over other similar cases?
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Originally Posted by CHTransplant
In a perfect world I guess every crime and every injustice would get equal attention and all of us would be equally incensed at the flaws and imperfections of our systems. I don't think we have to beat ourselves (or each other) up because were not all as upset (or knowledgeable) about one situation or another. Social and political change usually comes about because some cases do get more attention than others (yes, often those involving white, attractive, wealthy, etc. victims) - these cases serve to highlight the problems and become the representative for the other injustices that occur.
Well, golly gee, paint me stupid. How could I, for one, not see that was a perfectly acceptable reason to throw them under the bus.
No, the point is that they knew that the Lacrosse players were not the innocent little church boys they wanted everyone to believe they were.
Something happened that night, and the Duke faculty was right in condemning those boys. The fact that so many were willing to do it speaks volumes. They were well aware of the potential ramifications that could come form doing it. If they were so willing to face those possible consequences, I think it stands to reason that they legitimately felt they needed to speak out.
Again,the only reason they were condemned along with Mike Nifong was because of WHO they messed with.
No, the point is that they knew that the Lacrosse players were not the innocent little church boys they wanted everyone to believe they were.
Something happened that night, and the Duke faculty was right in condemning those boys. The fact that so many were willing to do it speaks volumes. They were well aware of the potential ramifications that could come form doing it. If they were so willing to face those possible consequences, I think it stands to reason that they legitimately felt they needed to speak out.
Again,the only reason they were condemned along with Mike Nifong was because of WHO they messed with.
Exactly wrong. (1) In fact, the players were innocent; (2) in fact, nothing "happened" that night; (3) in fact, the faculty was dead wrong in condemning the innocent players without a crumb of evidence that the players had done anything (innocent til proven guilty -- remember?) ; (4) in fact, the volumes spoken are about the basic lack of integrity of the 88 faculty members; (5) in fact, as we have seen, there are no ramifications or consequences for Duke faculty trashing their own students, provided that the students are upper-middle-class white males; and (6) in fact, Nyfong would have been in deep trouble for doing what he did to anyone, provided only that his action reached the news media.
First, a little background: several posts were deleted, so some of my comments are replies to comments that no longer exist. If something I said doesn't make sense, this is why.
Second--can you answer my original question? I'd appreciate it. The Panthers have NOTHING to do with ANYTHING I have said. We are talking about two court cases where people were wrongly accused. No one is talking about the Black Panthers. I feel like that was a red herring you threw out to get this off track and avoid dealing with the subject. If I remember correctly, it was a handful of "Panthers" who showed up, and many people wanted them to leave. Mangum herself said she didn't want them involved. As far as I'm concerned, they are irrelevant to this conversation. As for my feelings, YES I wanted them to leave ASAP, as I felt they added to what quickly became a circus atmosphere.
I am just pointing this out. Can we all agree that these two cases were spotlighted differently? If everybody is "equally upset" when ANYBODY is mistreated--then why isn't anybody in here upset over other similar cases?
Sad, but definitely very true.
Actually, I knew about the Erick Daniels case, via following the Duke Lacrosse Rape Frame. Supporters of the Lax boys started a block and it expanded into being an advocate for other falsely accused and victims of the system. Check out this link:
THere were many talks about the Daniels case. Also, the Lax boys have taken on the problem of prosecutorial misconduct. I would like your opinion on that.
No, the point is that they knew that the Lacrosse players were not the innocent little church boys they wanted everyone to believe they were.
Something happened that night, and the Duke faculty was right in condemning those boys. The fact that so many were willing to do it speaks volumes. They were well aware of the potential ramifications that could come form doing it. If they were so willing to face those possible consequences, I think it stands to reason that they legitimately felt they needed to speak out.
Again,the only reason they were condemned along with Mike Nifong was because of WHO they messed with.
If something happened that night, can you please tell us? Because all of her stories changed to fit the defense's evidence. She never told the same story twice. DNA evidence came back exonerating them. She wasn't assulted, as hospital photos showed. So, what did happen? Can you back up your assertion? You claim the faculty were right in condemning the boys...before any trial? Can you comment on that please? The reason they were condemned is because they rushed to judgement and said racist, gender and class biased statements. Then they whined when they got legitimate critcism, as they have are the only ones that can take part in critical reasoning and social justice conversations.
This thread has wandered FAR off topic, which was:
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I don't want to rehash all the theatrics of this horrible scandal in 2007 . I have read everything I googled on Mike NifonG but I can't learn whatever happened to him. I know he declared bankruptcy but is he still in the area and what is he doing? He can reapply for his law license in 2012 but I wonder if he will.
The discussion is no longer *local* in nature, and I suggest that if anyone wants to continue, you should do so in the Politics forum.
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