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Old 07-13-2007, 11:39 PM
 
70 posts, read 374,949 times
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NY652 - Without getting into too much detail (I will leave that to my atty hubby), I like the point that was made in one of the links you posted as related to technological advancements and their impact on the real estate industry.

I agree the Internet has been the main driver in the increase of FSBO/Flat Fee sellers because people now do not have to rely on the realtor to search the MLS. Unfortunately, this has had a negative impact on realtors......but, you know what??? Its probably about time ya'll start getting used to it. Many other industries have had similar impacts and have had to rethink their strategies. Instead of fighting the trend, maybe someone could come up with a better selling strategy?
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,542,091 times
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2-3% is certainly ok in my eyes.
It is just you have those companies that play upon the "Why pay 6% we will do it for 2%" which is a disservice to the seller.
When the 2% agents first came to our area I tried working with them but for that 2% they put a sign in the yard, put it in the MLS and offered net $2 to the buyers agent.
I had my first experience with them 2 weeks into my Real Estate career and had buyers down from Jersey for the weekend. I called to show a house, by the time they called me back my buyers were back in Jersey and we had a house under contract.
I felt kind of lucky because it was a drive by on the way to other homes we were viewing and I did not know it was $2 to the buyers agent.
On subsequent listings by this company I simply explained to my buyers, as we were in front of the computer viewing listings, that they were going to pay me $2 if I sold the house and they were quite welcome to go see it but I could not help them. I never had a buyer that wanted to see them.
I guess it is just a psychological thing because most of my buyers said, "Oh there must be something wrong with the house".

Realtors are in business to make money and we do provide a valuable service.
If someone chooses to go FSBO or Flat Fee that is their choice. They are looking to save money and that is fine but they can't expect to get full service on a discount charge.
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:52 AM
 
Location: Carbondale, PA
59 posts, read 271,888 times
Reputation: 18
There's no conspiracy against FSBO's. If a buyer approaches me about a FSBO, I'd be more than happy to work with that owner to try and get their home sold. What FSBO's don't get is, if they're not listing with a broker, we don't know anything about their home. So we may have the perfect buyer for their home, but we don't know it. In my area right now, I have over 2000 homes on the MLS to pick from, I'm not going to waste time tracking down every FSBO to ask if their house meets certain guidelines, when I have plenty of people who have taken the time to list with a broker looking to sell their houses.

Realtors do get a bad name, because we would like to make money in our career. I don't really see why that's a bad thing. It's not like we cheat people out of money. We get a small percentage as a commission, which is usually split with another broker which makes our cut even smaller. We don't ask other people to sacrifice their salaries. I don't get the Realtor's bad name. Maybe it's because we're salespeople, and by default salespeople get a bad name.
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Carbondale, PA
59 posts, read 271,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
Realtors are in business to make money and we do provide a valuable service.
If someone chooses to go FSBO or Flat Fee that is their choice. They are looking to save money and that is fine but they can't expect to get full service on a discount charge.
Mike you are dead on here. The one thing I've noticed about FSBO's and there are facts to prove this, when they actually do sell their own homes, they get a lot less for it, than a realtor could've gotten them and that's even with commission. Either that or they completely overprice their home and then it just sits and sits and sits, and one of two things will happen. It'll come off the market or it'll finally get listed with a broker, in which case the FSBO has wasted their own time and money trying to sell their own home.

6% commission may seem like a lot, but when you take in advertising costs, and just the costs of going to and from the properties to show them (especially in an area like mine where it can sometimes be a 20-30 mile hike) we're not making THAT MUCH on the sale.
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Old 07-14-2007, 03:47 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
631 posts, read 2,436,803 times
Reputation: 331
Default My reluctance for fsbo and other's listings.

1. I have fsbo's approach me sometimes,they don't want to list, they "Just" want me to send them a buyer for 3% or whatever. Mostly I think thru the liability of referring a shopper to an unlicensed person to purchase, being responsible just for referring if things go wrong, even if for free, and especially for a fee. Not to say fsbo's can't do the job, for liability reasons I have few select brokers I will refer to also.

2. Also, fsbo's pricing is too messy for me. One price if they sell it, one price if they have to pay a commission. I'm not experienced enough to explain that to a shopper. I'd rather avoid it.

3. I've called fsbo's only because a customer will ask me to. They either don't call me back or treat me with contempt.

4. I prefer to sell my own listings not because of more commission.
My listings are more concrete to work with. We have an agreement in writing, an understanding, and if they are the flakey sort I won't list with them mitigating a potential future nightmare trying to serve a customer with a nutcase seller. (hopefully I figured that out before I agreed to sign a listing to sell the property). We just lost a buyer with money on the table finding out we were dealing with a nutcase seller.Time spent, money spent ours and theirs, and it won't work due to the nutcase. Buyer is back out of state, and now has to come back and start over if we're lucky enough to find him a backup property.
Even trying to sell another's listing can be a pain in the butt. He died, he changed his mind, he's changed the price, we need a weeks notice to show, lost the keys, didn't mention the bank forclosed on the wrong house, this one, and it has to get fixed, oh yeah, there's no legal access. You know that driveway? It's really not his driveway it's the neighbors but he won't let the new buyer use it only the old one. He's landlocked can't sell it afterall, have to get that fixed, you want the name of the seller for the contract? Guess. We'll get back to you later with that info in a couple of days, just leave it blank for now, oh yeah, this house I just helped you show your client that she wants to buy, I didn't mention it's in probate, it could take years to get it done, you need an address? Call a surveyor. We don't cooperate with brokers with commission, you can sell it and do all the work, but we'll only pay you $250.... on and on, not to mention one more broker in the mix can make the good deal take a lot longer to get done and you're on time crunches and at their mercy to get up with their client in a timely manner. I'd rather sell my own listings. Yeppers!

5. Still attempting to help fsbo....I showed a FSBO because he asked me to sell it but would not list it. He begrudged paying even a 4% commission. (very remote area, I'm the only one that sells out there, lots of the story missing why I would agree to that)
Long story made short... The people stated they wanted to buy his house, he pitched a little fit about paying a commission in front of them. They refused to buy his house because of that and his stinkin attitude about it. I never showed his house again.

sidenote: He's since found a buyer (beats me if he did a contract)these past couple of weeks on his own. Long story short. Buyer and Seller made a very expensive mess out of the whole thing. They started out with good intentions w/o forseeing possible future consequences of their actions of "good faith". Buyers sunk 8K for a well for a house they didn't own yet, didn't get what he promised(a gusher well). They don't want the house now, and he can't pay for the well. Yikes! Really, the well was adaquate, but he pumped them up for the motherload. It wasn't even close to the motherload. Only 2 wells got those. His neighbors.
I'm glad I didn't send them to him for a fee or free!

6. I agree sometimes a FSBO is the way to go in some circumstances and could find a buyer quicker, and will even suggest that to a potential lister.

I really don't come across this very often because now I mostly sell pretty remote properties with out of state owners who won't attempt a fsbo, and properties most brokers don't want to touch, including out of my local area. (except the guy with the well). So usually I'm in a happy little protected world away from all of that. Once in awhile I'm forced to come back to real estate reality. I love real estate only when it's sane.

I have resorted to suggesting to buyers to put an ad in the paper under Wanted... if they are looking for something I don't have or can't find listed. Or suggest they drive around town for signs and ck the papers for fsbo's.

I've never had the response, Hey! I'm so glad you called! Yes we would really like to sell our house, who wants to buy it!

I say good luck to Fsbo's! It's a big world out there! There's plenty for everyone to buy and sell. I'd work with you but it's just too tricky for me.
But you're not alone, I don't like showing other's listings either if I don't have to! But we still do and still try.
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Old 07-14-2007, 06:34 AM
 
16,174 posts, read 32,332,373 times
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My take on the OP's question is that yes, some realtors do conspire and yes some realtors don't conspire. Depends on the location, the realtor, the values they were taught growing up, the phase of the moon and the angle of the dangle. This is a YMMV (your miles may vary) type of thing. It is best for any seller to do their research for their type of home/land in their particular area with their particular RE climate and go from there. This has been an interesting and thought provoking thread.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Just south of Denver since 1989
11,813 posts, read 34,270,988 times
Reputation: 8930
I also do not believe there is a conspiracy.

It's a matter of the Realtor using the best tool in their professional toolbox to locate several property matches for the buyer. Buyer's buy based on comparing your house to others.

It works really well among licensed professionals. We market and strategize, negotiate, cajole, advise, try to keep things together/ or get them apart. We have experience. It's not complicated...well, sometimes. Can you guess in advance, which times are easy and which aren't?

You will always be allowed to sell your own house w/o representation. But by avoiding the Realtor, you also avoid the marketplace where there are more buyers buying and sellers selling.

If you decide to sue someone - your attorney will look up case law that they have complied. What would happen to your case if your attorney didn't use the best resource availalbe to them?

Do you buy you household groceries at the store - or do you go to the butcher, the baker...heck - skip all those guys too, go to the meat packing plant and buy your steak direct. There is not much of a market to sell ready to eat beef at a meat packing plant. Consumers want there beef all cut up and nicely packaged for their use.

Should attorneys help buyers and sellers of properties more? They already do in some areas...and yet there are still Realtors working in those areas.

Would prices of houses and/or services change if you needed a JD degree and passing the bar, in order to show buyers or market sellers? Now anyone over 18 with a real estate license can do it.
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:51 PM
 
441 posts, read 2,102,744 times
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Our situation is that we do not have enough home equity to pay an agent. We need to sell and buy another home and, in order to sell the house, we are listing it below appraisal. We can't afford realtor fees. So see, it's not always that the seller is against realtors or thinks that brokers are "know it alls". We wish we could afford a realtor. It stinks that realtors always think the worst of the for-sale-by-owner folk.
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Old 07-14-2007, 05:06 PM
 
77 posts, read 428,760 times
Reputation: 50
Default We need the money to move -

Quote:
Originally Posted by SashaBlue View Post
Our situation is that we do not have enough home equity to pay an agent. We need to sell and buy another home and, in order to sell the house, we are listing it below appraisal. We can't afford realtor fees. So see, it's not always that the seller is against realtors or thinks that brokers are "know it alls". We wish we could afford a realtor. It stinks that realtors always think the worst of the for-sale-by-owner folk.
I agree with your assessment of why we chose FSBO - it's really quite simple. The money we save we need because we are relocating out of state. We came here for a job - it's retirement time - there's no family here, no friends here - no reason to stay. We just know it's going to cost us money this time; last time the company helped with relocation costs. We also did not get a warm feeling about the realtors we talked with so felt our only option was FSBO. We don't agree either with the facts they try to present (naturally in THEIR favor) that FSBO's would get more for their home if they sold with a realtor. So often the realtors keep telling people to lower their prices - we think they do this so THEY can make a fast sale which equates to more money in THEIR pocket!

This is an interesting article:

For Sale by Owner Center: Do NAR Statistics of “For Sale by Owner” Sales Mislead People? (http://www.forsalebyownercenter.com/blog/2006/10/do-nar-statistics-of-for-sale-by-owner.html - broken link)

Do NAR Statistics of “For Sale by Owner” Sales Mislead People?
You’ve heard it quoted hundreds of times…

"The median home price for sellers who use an agent is 16.0 percent higher than a home sold directly by an owner; $230,000 vs. $198,200;”

This figure comes from the NAR 2005 Buyer and Seller Profile. This figure is quoted religiously by the real estate and the media.

In fact the National Association of REALTORS even has a TV commercial about it.


"Don't Try This At Home", targets unrepresented sellers (the FSBO market). The commercial features a hard-hitting message: REALTORS® have the experience to price your home effectively, so it can sell for up to 16% more than selling it yourself.


This is a pretty bold claim. 16% is a big number so let’s analyze this a little more using different figures. Here is what a home buyer would be led to believe hearing this statistic.

FSBO $300,000 / REALTOR $348,000 – 16% would be $48,000 more
FSBO $400,000 / REALTOR $464,000 – 16% would be $64,000 more
FSBO $500,000 / REALTOR $575,000 – 16% would be $75,000 more

These numbers would make everyone consider selling with an agent… but how true are they?

Now I’m sure that this claim has caused thousands of FSBO’s to go out and hire a real estate agent to sell their home costing them millions in real estate commissions.

What is interesting to me is that the data set used to make this claim is not available anywhere. I have looked for it and cannot find it. If you have it great, let’s make it public so we can see how the NAR arrived at this statisic.


So, where DO they get their stats? I can't find it either. It might be a trade secret and only available if you pay to join the NAR - ?? Does anyone know the answer to this? I have only copied this article in part; please click on the link in "blue" so you can read the entire article.
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Old 07-14-2007, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 20,542,091 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY652 View Post
So, where DO they get their stats? I can't find it either. It might be a trade secret and only available if you pay to join the NAR - ?? Does anyone know the answer to this? I have only copied this article in part; please click on the link in "blue" so you can read the entire article.

It is not a trade secret, NAR has people that are paid to compile all the data. You could probably dig up the info, it would just take you quite a while.

This is not a tool that will help us sell your home but it illustrates the fact that realtors generally have more information readily available to them to help get your home sold.
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