New Land Survey Prior to Listing Property??? (agents, square footage, Realtors)
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I've been in the market now for 8 months. I've made three offers - each with a new survey contingency - and due to survey results, walked.
It's an old waterfront community where large estates have been subdivided over the years. I previously lived in the community for 25 years. My family has owned property there for nearly 60 years.
I understand you can receive survey results which do vary, however, each property had its own set of issues. All three properties owned by same owners for over 40 years.
#1 listed at .73. Survey .59 With easements and zoning couldn't add garage which property lacked.
#2. Historic property which I knew like the back of my hand having written an article on it in the past.
Listed at 2.17 - which I knew was wrong from the start. This property has been my dream house
since I was a little girl. Original survey from the 1880's 1.89. New Survey 1.49! Since it is water- front I had expected a loss of land due to storm erosion. In my state, waterfront is measured to the
Mean High tide line. This was a heartbreaker. If I were Bill Gates - I'd move the house!
#3 Original parcel consisted of 3 lots. .34, .35 and .87. This property - it's all about location. Not in a
flood zone - yet a 5 minute leisurely walk to sandy beach. The house - 1970 - ugly as sin, never
been updated, A gut reno.. As my BA and I walked the lot line with the LA, my
agent pulled me aside and said.... something is not right with the lot line. How right he was.
Listing said 1.17. And survey came back at 1.17. However, when the owner sold the unbuildable .34
lot, the existing house on the .87 lot no longer conformed to zoning. No side setback! The roof
projects into the .34 lot. Okay, I thought.. I'll build new.
Just ended three months of wrangling with seller, zoning, engineering, etc. No dice. Due to ledge,
easements and required setbacks, I'd have an extremely expensive little house with no view!
Why, why, why... especially in the "luxury" market don't Listing Agents cover all their bases?
I've been in the market now for 8 months.
I've made three offers - each with a new survey contingency - and due to survey results, walked.
1) Aside from odd cases like yours it's mostly a non issue and unrelated to being "luxury".
2) It's the sellers decision to do it (not the agent).
3) Like condition inspections, if they don't *know* there's a problem they don't have to acknowledge any.
caveat emptor
hth
[quote=jackmichigan;29314615]I suspect that few Sellers want to pay for a survey prior to listing.[in/QUOTE]
We're not talking tract houses here...........
Property #2 and #3 - the value is in the land - not the improvements. And when you are talking listing prices of $4 million plus.........in a community where lots have been chopped and diced over the years.. or have literally fallen into the ocean..........shouldn't it be part of getting ready to sell along with decluttering, neutralizing and depersonalizing?
I agree that on some properties it would be a very good idea. My broker just had a situation recently where she convinced the seller to get a survey because of some worries she had. Sure enough, there were encroachments and some other problems which he was able to cure prior to selling. Voila! Buyer had a recent survey with proof that there were now no encroachment problems. Now, if the buyer had asked for a survey and one revealed all these problems during escrow, the sale could have fallen out.
I know another broker here whose policy is that every property be surveyed (excluding condos of course) and the buyer client has to agree to pay for one if the seller refuses. His client was buying my client's home. She paid the cost of staking and the buyer paid the balance for a full survey. Lo and behold, we discovered that a low rock wall was encroaching a few inches onto the next door property. Not a big deal but to cover this, we had an encroachment agreement prepared and the neighbor signed it. Now it will never be a problem again for either owner of these 2 adjoining properties. Made a believer out of me!
When I lived in Missouri, it was a law I guess, that all sales included a new survey. Then, if a neighbor or the home owner had put up a fence or shed or porch roof since the last survey, an encroachment would be detected with each transaction on that property.
Property #2 and #3 - the value is in the land - not the improvements. And when you are talking listing prices of $4 million plus.........in a community where lots have been chopped and diced over the years.. or have literally fallen into the ocean..........shouldn't it be part of getting ready to sell along with decluttering, neutralizing and depersonalizing?
I've bought plenty of properties where a new survey was called for, but rarely was that done prior to listing. Most people simply don't want to shoulder the expense of a survey, especially if they've had no problems with boundary disputes. Of course, an early survey may help with a sale...but many Sellers are hesitant to pay for a survey before there's any hint of money coming in from a sale.
A new survey in conjunction with a sale is easier to stomach; but, of course, in unique situations such as yours it certainly could make for a smoother process if a survey were done beforehand. But, then again, maybe they just didn't want to confirm what they had suspected in terms of lost square footage because not every purchaser would request a new survey.
In many cases there's little advantage to the homeowner to discover a problem. The fences are where the fences are, and when trying to sell, it's better to represent that as the property instead of finding out that there's a potential issue that could cost you money. Hand the issues off to the next guy.
There's also the issue that many people think that Realtors know all about property lines and have it all taken care of. After all, if the Assessor's office shows that I have 100 feet across the front and the Realtor doesn't raise a fuss, then it must be true.
If people were more aware that the land being sold was the land as described in the deed and/or on the latest parcel map and not what they visually see between the fences (though the two may be very close to being the same), there might be more of a push to get things sorted out.
It's not unusual in the mountains for a large land tract to be listed with no current, or just no survey at all. Land has been in the family for generations and since most property was fenced or runs along a road or creek, then why bother. We always suggest the seller get a survey ahead of time but it's not cheap. I just surveyed off 2 acres from my own parcel and the bill was $550. That can be hard enough for some of these old farmers to come up with, let alone the bill for a 75 acre tract. When we bring a buyer to parcels like this, we insist on a survey and we write in an over/under clause. We agree to purchase the 100 acres for $250,000. If a survey shows that there is less than 95 acres, we will deduct $2,500 an acre down to 80 acres at which time we will re-negotiate. By the same token, if the land surveys for grater than 105 acres, we will purchase the land for $2,500 an acre extra up to 120 acres at which time we will re-negotiate. This typically works out well.
For a community in the 1-5 acre range, it would be assumed that the survey is current and correct. However, I have seen nightmares where a surveyor has had to redo an entire development because the pins are off on one house in the middle. The problem isn't discovered until a buyer raises the question. After all, there was a survey at one time
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