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Our economy is pretty strongly tied to the real estate market. Many jobs depend on homes being bought and sold, and when the market slows down, as it has, it brings us to the brink of a serious depression. A depression is not going to help this country.
While it's easy to sit back and complain about the many people who bought over their heads, and the would be investors jumping on the band wagon, some tend to forget that people did not have a crystal ball then, just as they don't now.
It's very easy to play Monday morning quarterback.
There are many people who had to move during the last few years and could afford what they bought, but now they have to move again, and it is the price decline, not any irresponsible actions on their part that is causing them problems.
I'm working with a short sale in Surprise. This couple moved here in late 2005 from Minnesota in order to be near to and help their daughter, who was having problems.
The daughter has now gotten on her feet and is doing ok. However, both of the couple's parents back in Minnesota need help, so they want to move back to help their parents. These are great people who are just trying to do the right thing for their families.
They paid $239 for their home, but when they went to sell it was worth about 180. They didn't do anything wrong, but they are forced to sell because of the moral obligation they feel for their family. They never had any idea that the market was getting too high. They just came down here and paid what was the market value for that time.
We lowered the price last week to 165 and received an offer within a week, and today another agent called to say that she may also place an offer for a client.
The bank told me the lowest percentage of the current market value that they will accept. So I asked the agent who made the offer to supply comps to justify her offer, and she did.
So the program that has been put in place to not cause this couple to pay tax on the forgiven debt is a life saver for them.
They lived by the rules also, CJ. And they, like many, did not lie about their income. Their timing was just off, and there was nothing they could have done to change it. Let's remember that there are many many people just like this, who did not act irresponsibly, but they got caught up in the mele.
It wasn't their fault that they got damaged. So I'm happy to see that they received some relief from the government.
Just let everybody convert into a 30 Yr fixed mortgage at current rates. If they can't afford or qualify then they should not be owning a house. That will get the monkey off our back for 30 yrs.
But that's going to mean a lot of people are going to become renters again, and we've been told for - how long now - that renting is inherently throwing your money away. I think there are a lot of people who would rather be hopelessly in debt than renting inexpensively where they might actually build some savings or real wealth.
As opposed to a bad mortgage frontloaded with interest under which you'll gain next to zero equity before you lose the whole thing....
I'm renting now, was renting while they were giving Wal-Mart clerks $250K mortgages and I'm feeling pretty smart about it after the fact.
I'm renting now, was renting while they were giving Wal-Mart clerks $250K mortgages and I'm feeling pretty smart about it after the fact.
Glad to find another renter that agrees with me. Sold my home a couple of years ago and have been renting since. And in hindsight, its probably the best financial decision I have made in the last two years. Still holding off to see what the markets does come summer before I start looking again.
Our economy is pretty strongly tied to the real estate market. Many jobs depend on homes being bought and sold, and when the market slows down, as it has, it brings us to the brink of a serious depression. A depression is not going to help this country.
While it's easy to sit back and complain about the many people who bought over their heads, and the would be investors jumping on the band wagon, some tend to forget that people did not have a crystal ball then, just as they don't now.
It's very easy to play Monday morning quarterback.
There are many people who had to move during the last few years and could afford what they bought, but now they have to move again, and it is the price decline, not any irresponsible actions on their part that is causing them problems.
I'm working with a short sale in Surprise. This couple moved here in late 2005 from Minnesota in order to be near to and help their daughter, who was having problems.
The daughter has now gotten on her feet and is doing ok. However, both of the couple's parents back in Minnesota need help, so they want to move back to help their parents. These are great people who are just trying to do the right thing for their families.
They paid $239 for their home, but when they went to sell it was worth about 180. They didn't do anything wrong, but they are forced to sell because of the moral obligation they feel for their family. They never had any idea that the market was getting too high. They just came down here and paid what was the market value for that time.
We lowered the price last week to 165 and received an offer within a week, and today another agent called to say that she may also place an offer for a client.
The bank told me the lowest percentage of the current market value that they will accept. So I asked the agent who made the offer to supply comps to justify her offer, and she did.
So the program that has been put in place to not cause this couple to pay tax on the forgiven debt is a life saver for them.
They lived by the rules also, CJ. And they, like many, did not lie about their income. Their timing was just off, and there was nothing they could have done to change it. Let's remember that there are many many people just like this, who did not act irresponsibly, but they got caught up in the mele.
It wasn't their fault that they got damaged. So I'm happy to see that they received some relief from the government.
Where's all the equity in their original home? they probably financed 100% and bought at the peak. That was good financial sense....bought more than they could afford.
Did anyone warn them about how out of whack AZ was in terms of a bubble a the time? Did they consider renting so they could think maybe for a couple months and not make such an emotional decision when they were going through one?
You say they never had any idea the "market was getting so high"..
LOL, now I know why they got into financial trouble. Hello! McFly! did they live in a vacuum and not understand that their area was a bubble and way overvalued? If they are clueless in understanding the current real estate happenings around them, then shame on them.
YOUR rules are totally different than mine. You got close to them emotionally but from someone objectively looking at the situation, they were finacially clueless which cost them thousands of dollars. It wasn't mostly "bad luck".
Where's all the equity in their original home? they probably financed 100% and bought at the peak. That was good financial sense....bought more than they could afford.
Did anyone warn them about how out of whack AZ was in terms of a bubble a the time? Did they consider renting so they could think maybe for a couple months and not make such an emotional decision when they were going through one?
You say they never had any idea the "market was getting so high"..
LOL, now I know why they got into financial trouble. Hello! McFly! did they live in a vacuum and not understand that their area was a bubble and way overvalued? If they are clueless in understanding the current real estate happenings around them, then shame on them.
YOUR rules are totally different than mine. You got close to them emotionally but from someone objectively looking at the situation, they were finacially clueless which cost them thousands of dollars. It wasn't mostly "bad luck".
You're a pretty bright guy CJ, and if you would use your head and a little calculator you would learn that from a purchase price of 239 to a list price of 165 is 74k, which is 30% down. No one puts 30% down on a home.
You're pretty good at insulting everyone with your Monday morning quarterbacking CJ. But then again you're perfect and everyone else is supposed to be perfect too. But not everyone has the crystal ball and hindsight that you have.
Yes my rules are different than yours, and my compassion is a lot different than yours, and I'm thankful for that.
You're a pretty bright guy CJ, and if you would use your head and a little calculator you would learn that from a purchase price of 239 to a list price of 165 is 74k, which is 30% down. No one puts 30% down on a home.
You're pretty good at insulting everyone with your Monday morning quarterbacking CJ. But then again you're perfect and everyone else is supposed to be perfect too. But not everyone has the crystal ball and hindsight that you have.
Yes my rules are different than yours, and my compassion is a lot different than yours, and I'm thankful for that.
This is unbelievable...
Many people saw this coming a mile away. There was no "Monday morning" quarterbacking from these peoples' perspectives:
David Tice
Peter Schiff
Rober Schiller
Nouriel Roubini
All regular pundits on CNBC, Bloomberg, and Fox Business. They've warned, and warned, and warned...few listened. Oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Same goes to the person who bought Apple stock at 200 or Google at 600.
They did not need to buy. I'm sure there were plenty of places to rent.
Many people saw this coming a mile away. There was no "Monday morning" quarterbacking from these peoples' perspectives:
David Tice
Peter Schiff
Rober Schiller
Nouriel Roubini
All regular pundits on CNBC, Bloomberg, and Fox Business. They've warned, and warned, and warned...few listened. Oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Same goes to the person who bought Apple stock at 200 or Google at 600.
They did not need to buy. I'm sure there were plenty of places to rent.
As for media "doom and gloom"...
Bill - Let this one go. This is another of the reincarnates...There are a set of people with weird personalities who keep changing their identity and jumping back into the fray as yet another newby. This is another of those doppelgangers. Don't waste time responding. This guy knows perfectly well that his position is full of holes. That is why the new persona.
My first was in 2002. Guy had heard the Gurus speak and refused to buy the house...because he knew in a few months he would get it for 10 cents on the dollar. He is still waiting as will be most of these turkeys as they miss the recovery.
Note the radio operator with the tin hat...likely the poster. Sit to close to an antenna for a while and it does that to you.
Bill - Let this one go. This is another of the reincarnates...There are a set of people with weird personalities who keep changing their identity and jumping back into the fray as yet another newby. This is another of those doppelgangers. Don't waste time responding. This guy knows perfectly well that his position is full of holes. That is why the new persona.
My first was in 2002. Guy had heard the Gurus speak and refused to buy the house...because he knew in a few months he would get it for 10 cents on the dollar. He is still waiting as will be most of these turkeys as they miss the recovery.
Note the radio operator with the tin hat...likely the poster. Sit to close to an antenna for a while and it does that to you.
Actually, the tin foil hat is definitely appropriate for those who believe that a group of people are out to "get them". Captain Bill has mentioned that the media is somehow responsible, and has provided no empirical evidence to his claim, just like other claims I've viewed from this thread and others. He's also made the outrageous claim that the depression was caused by unbridled capitalism, when several pieces of bestselling literature have made legitimate arguments that government controls have actually CONTRIBUTED to the depression (that is another matter however).
It's interesting that you mentioned I should be wearing this tin foil hat. I have claimed no conspiracy, and my argument IMHO has been rational and doesn't claim that any entity is influencing the market. It may not rub well with your opinion or Captain Bill's, but it is what it is. I guess it was just self-rewarding to think that I'm a conspiracy theorist without any evidence.
I've also noticed that many of your threads were full of accusations without any empirical evidence either. Per chance you have any evidence that the media is responsible? Or would it be approriate to don the hat as well?
Last edited by ViewFromThePeak; 02-16-2008 at 08:19 PM..
You're pretty good at insulting everyone with your Monday morning quarterbacking CJ. But then again you're perfect and everyone else is supposed to be perfect too. But not everyone has the crystal ball and hindsight that you have. .
Not asking you to be perfect Bill. It just befuddles me a teeny, tiny, bit when someone as smart as yourself dismisses affordability as a problem in bubble markets. I'll never understand that, and your reasoning to "work harder" in general to overcome that. Nice thought, but its mindboggling you don't get the affordability problem.
Also, if you didn't know or believe there was an imbalance in income vs. home values in many markets 2-4 years ago, then there's no use debating. But again, you don't or ever thought there's been an "affordability" problem, so its a moot point, right?
Actually, the tin foil hat is definitely appropriate for those who believe that a group of people are out to "get them". Captain Bill has mentioned that the media is somehow responsible, and has provided no empirical evidence to his claim, just like other claims I've viewed from this thread and others. He's also made the outrageous claim that the depression was caused by unbridled capitalism, when several pieces of bestselling literature have made legitimate arguments that government controls have actually CONTRIBUTED to the depression (that is another matter however).
It's interesting that you mentioned I should be wearing this tin foil hat. I have claimed no conspiracy, and my argument IMHO has been rational and doesn't claim that any entity is influencing the market. It may not rub well with your opinion or Captain Bill's, but it is what it is. I guess it was just self-rewarding to think that I'm a conspiracy theorist without any evidence.
I've also noticed that many of your threads were full of accusations without any empirical evidence either. Per chance you have any evidence that the media is responsible? Or would it be approriate to don the hat as well?
I would note that you don't dispute the doppelganger charge...
Some people never learn to change style...
The media reports whatever sells papers. When it starts back up they will feed the irrational growth yet again.
As to accusations without any empirical evidence...cite a few...particular what "empirical" evidence you would think satisfactory. "Empirical" is a funny word. Should be used only by those who know what it means.
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