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Old 11-26-2017, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,119 posts, read 16,146,620 times
Reputation: 14408

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Quote:
Originally Posted by riggy_house View Post
I suspect as Slytrix has implied that many Realtors will be frantically writing letters to their Senators behind the scenes, as the ones who take the time to review the situation will quickly understand how badly this will hurt their industry.

So, for one, many who are writing those letters of plea simply probably don't have time for much chit chat on this forum at the moment. I don't blame them for that either.

For two, I get the feeling that many agents are in fear of speaking out against the Repub plans, in a public format where their bosses can see and hear them.

This is no doubt an embarrassing situation that they are quietly worried about, and many simply will not be dealing with this in the public eye.

If the bill passes, yes many of them will be in deeper trouble than they probably now realize, as will our entire nation, but I guess sometimes you just have to sit back quietly and go along with the changes you voted for, whether those changes are for better or worse.

The Irony being that the few who are vocally supporting this bill, or who are appearing to act unperturbed by its potential ramifications, are likely secretly hoping that hard working individuals like you and I will continue to write our senators on their behalf, and in all reality would probably like nothing better than for our senators to oppose this bill, or at least the sec. 1402 article.
you still don't understand that all Realtors are independent contractors - we answer to no "boss"?

Do you have any recognition that among the top 5 lobbying organizations (aka "special interest groups") are the NAR, and the $100 that 1MM members a year give towards "political purposes". Take a breath, and read this simply:

$100 x 1MM members = $100 million dollars

spent on political advocacy on behalf of any and all property rights. Be you an investor looking to benefit from a medium-term rehab, a landlord, a personal residence, commercial buildings, and actually ... even tenants!
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
10,940 posts, read 21,914,344 times
Reputation: 10571
Gee, sorry that most of us spent a holiday with family instead of jumping on here to respond to your question.

If they change it they change it. Life goes on, probably will have a minimal impact anyway. I'll just be business as usual and I'll worry about the things I can control.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:12 AM
 
229 posts, read 239,962 times
Reputation: 378
I know you are not asking the victims in this particular thread but we are one of them. We wouldn't have gotten the full exemption anyway because it was not primary some of the years but I had the formula worked out and we listed. Now we will have to pay not only on all gains but pay taxes on soc sec as well.

Devastating to retired living on soc sec.
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Old 11-27-2017, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
10,940 posts, read 21,914,344 times
Reputation: 10571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki Siam View Post
I know you are not asking the victims in this particular thread but we are one of them. We wouldn't have gotten the full exemption anyway because it was not primary some of the years but I had the formula worked out and we listed. Now we will have to pay not only on all gains but pay taxes on soc sec as well.

Devastating to retired living on soc sec.
Check it, I think there may be exemptions for existing home owners. I'm not certain though, other people are better informed than I am on this subject right now. If it comes to be I'll learn the details.
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:45 PM
 
340 posts, read 221,674 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman View Post
Flipping implies both an ownership period well under two years & volume. In my state, getting a real-estate license takes about 100 hours of class time initially & 12 hours a year of continuing Ed, which is a hurdle initially, but with a median home price in my area of ~$200k, snagging just one side of a single commission = most of $6,000 gross savings, not to mention much greater control of the listing & a better chance of a fast sale. So, lots of flippers & slow-motion rehabbers & even landlords get & maintain a license - probably a full 1/3 or even higher of the "active" agents in our system are working primarily for themselves already.

So, realistically, "twue agents" (one who hold a license for the purpose of earning a full living for themselves), aren't greatly affected by the actions of "twue flippers".. If flipping is your business, you either have a cut-rate deal with a broker, or your own license.

Many new agents like to bloviate on and on about part-time agents, but that's mostly because they aren't very good at math - all of the various mls's & trade groups extract lots of dollars from part-time agents, so having extra "members" that pay for mls access & join trade groups to get that access (without using much of the service) are feeding the machine from a larger pool of victims. Eliminating all of the part-time agents would spread the costs over a much smaller pool & raise the monthly nut for "twue agents" even higher, increasing the failure rate of new agents from abysmal to stratospheric.

Tldr: flippers aren't a big portion of most agent's business. If you're buying or selling for investment purposes, you're probably already either getting a deal from a brokerage or an agent yourself.

As for this tax plan, I suspect most of the dollars generated are not from flippers or slow-motion rehabbers (they'll adapt & either rent or live in the properties longer to avoid the taxes), the revenue will come from the unaware & the unwary..

People who *thought* they weren't in a "business", but get taxed like they are running a business. If you own a property for personal use for over 2 years, you're most likely paying for materials and repairs that can't be documented (written off) properly. You may show a profit for tax purposes that isn't really a profit, but lost receipts or physical labor at $0 wages.

Even though I've benefitted handsomely from capital gains, the idea that funds earned simply by having money should be taxed at a *lower* rate than funds earned by the sweat of your brow is frankly bullsheet. Capital gains need to be taxed at a much higher rate that wages for real physical labor, otherwise, you're using tax policies to subsidize those who do nothing & penalize those who actually make your toilets flush.

Thank you for helping to bring to light what I have been adamantly trying to get others to understand, that either most don't get, or they perhaps just don't care because since they themselves aren't planning to sell their home in the next year or so.

Every Tom and Jane out there, whether they have RE "business" aspirations are not, that have been improving there homes over the past few years, never even thought to document their transactions as if they were running a business.

For the gov't to come in and make all those thousands of hardworking people in every state pay income taxes, without first giving them the chance to even know they were running a business is complete ludicrousness!

All of the people who are currently listed right now, who sell after the first of year will be completely screwed out of hard earned money if they didn't properly record all of their past expenses while improving their properties, as those expenses should have been tax deductible.

When plumbers buy a wrench, or a bottle of pipe dope, they properly record those receipts as they well understand that they are running a business, and that those are costs are not to be considered profit. (sorry, not yelling at you, just hoping others might see just how whacked this bill is.)

If people weren't actually running a business the past 2-4 years, then they shouldn't be suddenly taxed as if they were!

How can people not be upset about this and call themselves American, or even Human Beings for that matter?


To hear professionals saying things like, Oh well, if it happens it happens, I guess I'll look into it then frankly just baffles and disturbs me.


This will impact future sales.

Just as Bo has talked about, countless people have been doing what he has been doing for the past 20 years, which is to sell their homes every few years or so in order to move into better locations etc. This isn't just a flipper or RE investor thing. This is half the home owning families in America thing.


This sec. 1402 will make it less enticing for people to buy homes. How could it not?

More people will look to start renting as they transfer locations, as they will not want to incur the risk of buying, when they will be forced to live their at least 5 years. And they simply will not want the headache of keeping track of home improvement costs, as if they were running a business, just so they can sell sooner than 5 years.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:02 PM
 
340 posts, read 221,674 times
Reputation: 155
Truly the only fair thing to do, is, if the People truly want this sec. 1402 to pass, and they really want people to have to live in their homes for 5 years before selling tax exempt; then the fair thing to do is allow everyone who currently owns their home, to sell tax exempt after they've been there 2 years.

Then, the 5 of 8 rule should kick in after the purchase of their next home.

This would give people the ample time they need to understand that their future home improvements will be considered as business expenses, as they should be.

Now who can really argue that?
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:24 PM
 
340 posts, read 221,674 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki Siam View Post
I know you are not asking the victims in this particular thread but we are one of them. We wouldn't have gotten the full exemption anyway because it was not primary some of the years but I had the formula worked out and we listed. Now we will have to pay not only on all gains but pay taxes on soc sec as well.

Devastating to retired living on soc sec.
Hi Nikki. I'm sorry to hear what you are going through, and I fully understand that you feel blindsided by some very savvy and cold hearted individuals, who are looking to score big bucks for the IRS, in a very unscrupulous manner with this new bill.

I think it's only a small matter of time before more and more people like you start coming out to tell their stories. And thank you for doing so too btw.

Unfortunately, it will be years I think before the full affect takes force, and the bill backfires as more people stop buying and selling as much in order to avoid that hefty taxation.

Perhaps there will be a nationwide or federal law suit in the near future that we all might join in order to demand our rightful funds back, if they actually pull this off without a hitch like they are planning to this week.

Last edited by riggy_house; 11-27-2017 at 11:24 PM..
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:57 PM
 
340 posts, read 221,674 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
you still don't understand that all Realtors are independent contractors - we answer to no "boss"?

Do you have any recognition that among the top 5 lobbying organizations (aka "special interest groups") are the NAR, and the $100 that 1MM members a year give towards "political purposes". Take a breath, and read this simply:

$100 x 1MM members = $100 million dollars

spent on political advocacy on behalf of any and all property rights. Be you an investor looking to benefit from a medium-term rehab, a landlord, a personal residence, commercial buildings, and actually ... even tenants!
Hi Bo. Hope you had a happy thanksgiving with your family too, btw.

But is this your way of saying I should relax because there's a whole 100 million bucks given to politicians by the NAR?

I wonder, just how many airforce 1 rides does Trump get to take with that much money. I bet I can count them on my fingers and toes.

Don't believe for a minute that NAR "is on it", because some of the problems in the bill that have been outlined obviously aren't being noticed or understood by many- not even professionals.

If they were, you'd see a lot more people up in arms about how they're getting ready to be robbed out of their money and dreams.


Imagine you had just bought a nice RV a couple of years ago, and every year had booked hotels all across the nation for your family to experience. Then, the gov't suddenly passes a bill which says all RV owners will not only be charged a triple in sales tax next time they go to sell their RV, but that they will also be taxed for every mile they had driven for the past two years and into the future.

Would you have bought that RV, and taken those vacations?


Do you think it's fair for the gov't to tax people for their past activities, when people clearly didn't think those activities were taxable at the time, nor did they have any incling that taxation on their activities would be implemented at a later time?


I really think some of you should look at this bill, particularly sec. 1402 , and really think about what it means.

https://waysandmeansforms.house.gov/...ection_hr1.pdf


"Sec. 1402. Exclusion of gain from sale of a principal residence.
Current law: Under current law, a taxpayer may exclude from gross income up to $500,000 for
joint filers ($250,000 for other filers) of gain on the sale of a principal residence. The property
generally must have been owned and used as the taxpayer’s principal residence for two out of the
previous five years. A taxpayer may use this exclusion only once every two years.
Provision: Under the provision, a taxpayer would have to own and use a home as the taxpayer’s
principal residence for five out of the previous eight years to qualify for the exclusion. In
addition, the taxpayer would be able to use the exclusion only once every five years. The
exclusion would be phased out by one dollar for every dollar by which a taxpayer’s adjusted
gross income exceeds $500,000 ($250,000 for single filers). The provision would be effective
for sales and exchanges after 2017.
"

Last edited by riggy_house; 11-27-2017 at 11:22 PM..
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:50 PM
 
340 posts, read 221,674 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman View Post
Gee, sorry that most of us spent a holiday with family instead of jumping on here to respond to your question.

If they change it they change it. Life goes on, probably will have a minimal impact anyway. I'll just be business as usual and I'll worry about the things I can control.
No apologies necessary Brandon, and hope your holiday was joyful as well.

You can obviously sit back and let this roll over you and other Americans if that is what you already have planned, and it's doubtful I could persuade you otherwise.

However, you are wrong if you don't think you have any control on this. You have knowledge and the ability to reach others. I've heard you articulate and explain yours and others situations well before. You can use your position and expertise to reach people who will listen, who are still clueless, as are most Americans.

There's no shame in being clueless. I was completely clueless over the past 3 years that the home improvements I was making would all soon be considered as business expenses.

The question is, once you have a clue, What do you do with it?
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Old 11-28-2017, 12:30 AM
 
340 posts, read 221,674 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slytrix View Post
The National Aasociation of Realtors is on it. We have all emailed our congressmen and senators.

I was considering selling my house in 2018 as well so in the same boat as you. Where you have me confused is if the exclusion is for a principal residence then what is all the hoopla about flipping?

I try not to get all worked up over speculation about a bill that hasn't passed.
Did you pot commit to selling your house in 2018 by taking out a 200k dollar loan on it, in order to buy another house for your family to move into?

Did you actually buy another house, that needs a 70+ thousand in order to meet your families needs, and make the improvements that were started have been planned now for months?

Are you working diligently on your new house, while simultaneously carrying the costs of both homes?

I personally would have never gotten in such a boat that "we" are in, had I had any incling that my current home's sale would be taxed as income.

Oh, and Did you also lay off your laborers, as you no longer will be able to afford their help, as the funds that were anticipated from your home sale will be shortened by 10's of thousands when the bill passes?

Also, Are you currently letting your rental properties needs sit aside because you no longer can afford to pay others maintenance, nor do you have the time to do the maintenance yourself, as you are diligently trying to single handedly complete your new reno that you had already started, so that you can get your family moved in so that you can sell your current home in order to stop the bleeding of accounts that comes with carrying two homes?

Are you and the Nar really "on it", or do you just want others to relax and think so, in order to pull off more of your "sly tricks", and are you really hoping this bill gets passed as is?
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