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I'm not going to name any names (of companies or individual agents) but would appreciate some feedback on the following situation.
My husband and I put our house up for sale in North Carolina in December 2007. We had to move out of state rather urgently, elderly parents needing assistance and we moved in with them. So we were not/are not in the house, it is vacant. The house was built 1992, is 2-storey, 3 BR, 2.5 BA, 1460 sq ft with a deck on almost 3 acres of mostly wooded land. Very nice family neighborhood in the country, well kept homes about 15 minutes from major city. Prior to putting the house on the market, we painted the interior, put in new carpet and tile. Acreage is landscaped, with a trained grapevine, apple tree, plum tree, raspberries and a number of floral plantings.
The first realtor agreed with our starting price of $165,000. We didn't necessarily think it would sell at that price, but felt we could come down from there and have negotiating room. First 6 mos on the market, it was shown only 3 or 4 times. Realtor wanted us to drop price to $162,900 so we did, this did not increase showings.
Changed realtors. New realtor (as of summer 2008) went through and gave us a moderate checklist of things he thought needed to be fixed, including repainting ceilings and a couple other minor cosmetics, as well as replacing the water heater with a new one, and spruce up the landscaping. We paid out $4000 to get all this work done and then dropped the price to $153,500 as per realtor's recommendation. Only 3 or 4 showings over the next 6 months.
Feb 2009, realtor has new supervisor. Supervisor goes through the house and sends a list of criticisms (kitchen cabinets "outdated", tile poorly laid, paint drips on carpet, patch on a stair wall shows and wall not repainted, bathtubs dirty, etc.). Okay, by that point we had paid twice to have the house completely professionally cleaned by people the realtors had hired ... and the bathtubs were dirty??? The patch on the stair wall was a fix we had paid for months earlier in the summer of 2008, clearly not well done and the realtor had selected the workers for that. Re tile floor poorly laid, it was NOT poorly laid, it was a very nice job. And re kitchen cabinets "outdated", are those who wish to sell a house expected to totally refurbish the interior with all new cabinets, counters, and the like? The cabinets are in excellent condition in that house.
We felt the realty company should pay for the tubs to be cleaned, since we had already paid twice to have that done as part of the "professional" whole-house cleanings. We also felt the realty company should pay to have that patch area of the stairwell fixed and repainted. Instead, we ended up paying out $350 to get all that done -- realtor says will give us back $100 at closing.
Realtor very urgent we should lower price to $144,900 so we did, that was as of March this year. Still very few showings.
As of last month, realtor wanted us to lower price to $134,900 for 50 days, said we have not been getting showings because we are not in the right market. Oh, and get landscaping spruced up again -- cost us $425.
AND we now have a contract!! We are supposed to close the end of November. The buyer had the house inspected, a list of 39 things that should be corrected. Most of them small stuff like a lightbulb being out, drip on a faucet, etc. The buyer came up with a list of 7 things that she would like fixed prior to closing. We are agreeable to most of it, but one of the items is that the water heater was not installed to code and needs a couple of things done to rectify that. Per the estimates we are getting on these 7 repair items, it's going to cost us over $100 to get the water heater matter fixed -- we feel that since the realtor selected the company that installed the new water heater last summer *** which we paid for then ***, the realtor should pay to have the errors of installment fixed, we should not be asked to cover that.
We realize that the market has been terrible, it went south right after we moved and put our house up for sale, an event we didn't foresee of course. But seriously, a fair price for this specific house and acreage in this specific neighborhood, should be in the $150,000 - $155,000 range. We have spent $14,000 on the things done to spruce up for sale as well as the additional painting and small repairs done over the last couple of years.
I would like to know whether we have been well-served by our realtors. Virtually all the showings have been by other agents, not our own except for a couple of open houses this summer (there had not been one open house in the first year and a half the house was on the market). Our house has been criticized over issues the realtor was responsible for, and we've just been pushed again and again to lower our price. It is now so low that we won't be able to (1) cover the debts we've incurred with the house fixes plus our move, and (2) still have any money for a down payment on a new home.
We're glad the house is under contract, but we feel it is being sold at way under it's value. The house was evaluated at $140,000 for tax purposes.
Sorry for the length, and thank you for any feedback.
Thanks ... we'll go through with the present contract and at least be glad we can start saving our mortgage payments. That's the good news. I just have to wonder how common our experience is, even in this perilous market.
If you had a new heater installed would it not have had a permit pulled?
If so then and code deficiency should have been caught.
I would call the plumber that installed it.
As far as saying the Realtor chose the contractors, you had final say though they may have given recommendations. I understand you were out of the area but some of this comes back on you.
There may be some fault with the realtors but I would see what you can get them to credit you at closing but not risk losing the sale.
I agree with what Mike said. In addition, while you may feel the that 150-155k would be a fair price, the buyers clearly do not or you wouldn't have been for sale for 2 years. That's also a pretty extensive repair list, so I would guess that the house was not maintained very well. Hole in sheet rock, water heater, paint on the carpet...even if it was factored into price buyers still want a bigger discount and repairs in this market.
I don't see where the agent did anything wrong. If you had semigloss paint it's hard to match that. Some maid services offer different levels of service and I don't know what you were told you'd get. The water heater...call the original plumber on that one.
IMO and darn, the market was changing so fast during that timeframe so hard to tell, but I personally would have evaluated your personal situation and recommended to cut to the chase on list price, do 'basic' sprucing but nothing costly and price 'as is'. Just get out from under it, you know?
I have no idea your market, what things were selling for at the time brokerage #1 and you agreed to list price, how much values dropped, but you're saying (though don't know what year) assessor valued it at $140,000 and you really needed to sell so I probably would have just encouraged you to list it around assessed value (though in a hot market, would be different advice, you know?). Leave some negotiating room, but price to sell and not put a lot of money into it. Though, of course, agents can give advice all day - the final decision is the sellers.
The water heater was installed last summer and should still be under warranty - personally, I would get with the company that did 'not' install it to code and tell them to get it up to code NOW or you're filing a complaint with the BBB etc.
So anyway, that's my 2 cents worth - again, really hard for me to judge whether your agent was wrong when market conditions were changing so fast and don't know your particular market other than what you posted. Though if you feel strongly about this, don't talk to the agent about it, but itemize everything and go see the broker in charge about why you feel the way you do - (like the tubs, etc.). The agent can't do squat, but the BIC is the decision maker so again, if you really feel you got the wrong end of the stick, then talk to the BIC and see what you can negotiate. Best of luck and I am happy that at least at the end of the day, you do finally have a buyer.
To clarify -- it was a new *water* heater installed, not house-heater, so no permits needed.
Also, re paint on the carpeting, I should have said that we didn't leave paint on the carpet, it was the painters who came in last summer to re-paint the ceilings.
There was no hole in the drywall. Before we bought the house, apparently there had been some kind of small damage done to the wall along the stairs. It had been patched and painted, but if you looked at that wall from a certain angle you could see that it was very slightly bumpy in a 5-inch section, I guess they didn't sand it down. We weren't bothered about it, but we missed it when we did our fixes prior to moving. However, when the company did the fixes last summer, they put a patch over it and still didn't sand, so the patch was clearly evident under their paint -- all 4 sides of it!
In my opinion, when the realtor tells me what needs to be fixed, hires contractors their company uses, and then approves the work and okays for us to pay for it, the realtor should be responsible for the quality of the job done. In the case of the above patch job, clearly the realtor knew the wall needed to be fixed, and I think anyone who can see could see the patch as it stood out clearly -- who would approve that as a job well done?
And re pricing in the $140,000 - 150,000 range, quite frankly what with the tubs being left dirty (after the two professional cleanings by cleaners our realtor used), paint on the carpet (after the ceiling work by painters our realtor hired) and so forth, I can't say I'm overly surprised that potential buyers didn't think the place was worth that.
Oh, re the assessed $140,000, I believe that was in 2006, it was within a year or two of us needing to sell.
To clarify -- it was a new *water* heater installed, not house-heater, so no permits needed.
Also, re paint on the carpeting, I should have said that we didn't leave paint on the carpet, it was the painters who came in last summer to re-paint the ceilings.
There was no hole in the drywall. Before we bought the house, apparently there had been some kind of small damage done to the wall along the stairs. It had been patched and painted, but if you looked at that wall from a certain angle you could see that it was very slightly bumpy in a 5-inch section, I guess they didn't sand it down. We weren't bothered about it, but we missed it when we did our fixes prior to moving. However, when the company did the fixes last summer, they put a patch over it and still didn't sand, so the patch was clearly evident under their paint -- all 4 sides of it!
In my opinion, when the realtor tells me what needs to be fixed, hires contractors their company uses, and then approves the work and okays for us to pay for it, the realtor should be responsible for the quality of the job done. In the case of the above patch job, clearly the realtor knew the wall needed to be fixed, and I think anyone who can see could see the patch as it stood out clearly -- who would approve that as a job well done?
And re pricing in the $140,000 - 150,000 range, quite frankly what with the tubs being left dirty (after the two professional cleanings by cleaners our realtor used), paint on the carpet (after the ceiling work by painters our realtor hired) and so forth, I can't say I'm overly surprised that potential buyers didn't think the place was worth that.
Oh, re the assessed $140,000, I believe that was in 2006, it was within a year or two of us needing to sell.
Based upon this and JMO, I would have a long talk with the BIC and itemize everything you posted here. If you were out of state, they were in charge of personally overseeing the work and telling you it was satisfactory (i.e. it's okay, so pay the bill), then it wasn't okay (and my brokerage has a property management division so we do deal with this), then while I wouldn't suggest doing anything to jeopardize a sale, I would do some serious negotiations with the broker. There is a big difference between 'recommending' a service provider and personally overseeing the work and telling a client the work is okay, so pay the bill.
PS Still get with the company that installed the water heater that wasn't up to code and tell them to get it to code now. That falls on them.
hmm, house was assessed in 2006 (top of the market time) for 140k, then a year later when the bottom was dropping out of the market, you priced at $165k (25k over assessed) so you would have "negotiating" room. But, no one came to negotiate with you. this is what we try to tell sellers all the time. Price for the market, RIGHT NOW!! you have to entice someone to want to negotiate with you. Not price so high no one thinks you even in the ballpark.
so you chased the market down for a couple of years, and had to do some sprucing. As for the cleaning, even VACANT homes need to be cleaned more than twice in 2+ years. the tubs get grody. the house starts to look sad.
And as for your agent showing the house..... most of the time your agent does NOT show the house. that is why agents belong to an MLS (multiple listing service) and offers a co-broke commission split... to entice other agents with buyers to come and see your house. In fact, would you really want your agent to show your home and cause you to go into a situation where they are representing both parties?
Were you well served? I don't know. I know some of the things seemed to be a PITA, but you are under contract. Take care of these last little niggly things and be happy that it is DONE!! Praise the LORD!!
Re the initial price $165,000 being more than the assessed. Yes, I know, but we followed the realtor's recommendation on that. Between the house and acreage, he felt it was worth asking for that. The $140,000 was the tax assessment, I don't really know how that works in terms of real value of the house, though ... does that normally reflect what the market value is too?
And yes, we are taking care of the remaining incidentals and looking forward to closing. The closing is dependent on the buyer's house in Florida closing, though, so in part I'm wanting to get a better idea of the realities in case our closing falls through and we end up needing to go back on the market. Hopefully won't have to.
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