Listing agent holding out offers so he can get double commission (new agent, sale)

[Lacerta]

Originally Posted by yynawt1

Thanks everyone. Unfortunately our agent does not want to ruffle his feathers by demanding a signed receipt of the offer. The listing agent is definitely playing games to assure HE gets the best deal for himself, rather than the seller.
My wife and I discussed this situation with another agent last night and we have agreed to utilize a new agent for ourselves, offer slightly more money, a larger deposit, more money down and waive the appraisal contingency. Will see how this all plays out today as we know the listing agent will present HIS buyers offer to the seller today. We just want to make sure we have the best offer and we know he will not have his new buyer come in with a higher offer. So, if we somehow lose out on this property, then we know the listing agent is a crook (which I have heard from other agents, this guy is not very ethical, obviously). Still, if we do not get the deal, then are there ways to file a grievance, complaint or lawsuit against the listing agent?

So you are switching agents partway through? Did your original agent agree to this? Because you may end up having to pay them commission out of your own pocket, since they (I assume) introduced you to the house, and you almost certainly signed an agreement to buy the house with them as your agent. This is called "procuring cause" and they can come after you for the commission they SHOULD have received.

As to your other question, as I mentioned above, just because your offer didn't get accepted doesn't mean it didn't get presented. But if you can confirm that the seller never saw your offer and was not aware of it, then you can absolutely file a complaint. I would start with the broker of the office, and then go to the real estate commission, or board of realtors.

[gkleoni1]

Approach the seller yourself. I think that will be the only way you have any peace of mind. You can still use an agent to represent you throughout the process but take the offer or a copy of the offer directly to the owners and get an answer as to whether they got the first offer and when. Be polite and respectful, do not accuse their agent (it could be their brother, uncle, best friend...) Get some answers and closure so that if it does not work out you can put the situation behind you not fixate on it and move on to the next home... Best of luck.

[Newton126]

I'm not a real estate professional, but I don't recommend skipping the home inspection. It's the best protection you have from major problems. It already sounds like you are dealing with an unethical agent. This place could have all sorts of problems.

IMHO, you are falling in love with the house before you have it. Remove emotion from the equation. This is a business transaction. Protect your best interests ($$).

[middle-aged mom]

Not that I needed a reminder, this is why I choose not to operate as dual agency.

I am assuming thisis not bank-owned property.

Assuming the listing agent did not put the "do not up your offer" in writing and that you did not hear this directly from the listing agent makes it hearsay.

You DK what the seller has seen or not. The seller may have full knowledge of your offer as well as as the possibility of one or more other or better offers.

There is no certainty that the listing agent will kick in to make the dual agency offer work. The listing agent's job is to get the most net proceeds for their client. In this case, the listing agent is acting as a dual agent for one of the buyers.

Best practices for dual offers in my neck of the woods is to ask all buyers to come back with their final and best offer in sealed envelopes. If I were to lose my mind and be a dual agent. especially in a multiple bid situation, I would minimally ask all agents to be present when the final sealed offers were opened.

That your agent does not want to "ruffle feathers" is not acting in your best interests. There are all sorts of things your agent can do to make sure your offer is treated in a fair manner. Be aware that there are factors beyond net proceeds that often matter to sellers. A cash offer can beat a offer with a mortgage contingency. A quick or protracted close can beat a better financial offer. It all depends on the seller's needs in a multiple bid situation.

Do these agents work as independent brokers or do their licences hang with a broker. Do these agents have managing brokers? Do these agents belong to a local real estate board? Your agent should be accelerating this up the food chain. Unfortunately, it's up to you to advocate for your own best interests, here.

Dependent upon contract you signed, you may not have the ability to use another agent without risking that you are in breech of contract.

Just curious, where are you located?

[RedZin]

Originally Posted by manderly6

I hope that is one hell of a house.

Ain't that the truth?

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by yynawt1

So, if we somehow lose out on this property, then we know the listing agent is a crook (which I have heard from other agents, this guy is not very ethical, obviously). Still, if we do not get the deal, then are there ways to file a grievance, complaint or lawsuit against the listing agent?

The liklihood for potential complaints/litigation increases when a listing agent acts as dual agent in a multiple bid situation.

Your agent should be using this as a educational opportunity for the listing agent to teach him how to avoid downstream litigation or board/ state complaints that are going to happen if the listing agent cannot adequately demonstrate he treated all offers consistently and in a fair manner.

Getting a receipt of your offer/revised offer is meaningless if it gives the listing agent an opportunity to craft a better offer with his client. Nip this in the bud. Your agent needs to insist on best/final sealed bids and the opportunity to wittness the opening of such bids. Anything less exposes the listing agent to litigation and complain filing.

[cobble]

My question is who is Buyers Agent #2? Why would another agent want to get involved with a procuring clause case?
OP, please keep in mind that multiple offers are in the best interest of the Seller and the listing agent does have an obligation to get as many offers on the table as possible. It sounds like the response deadline on your offer has past. Forget the BS about going over the appraised value, the best indicator of value is what a willing and able buyer offers. Have Buyers agent #1 type up a new higher offer with a 24 hour response time and drop it off at the the listing agents office CC:ed to the Seller, hand deliver to the Seller's doorstep due to it's "time sensitive nature".

[Lacerta]

The other factor here is that we don't KNOW (not having seen the contract) that this is a dual agent situation. In my area, sometimes an agent who is representing a seller will write up a contract for an unrepresented customer, rather than a represented client, buyer. In other words, the buyer has no representation. The agent is acting purely on the seller's best interest. As long as that is made very clear (in writing) to the buyer, that is ethical.

[yynawt1]

UPDATE, UPDATE, UPDATE

Thanks everyone again for your responses, and let me clarify a few things as well as tell you what happened today.

First off, yes it is one hell of a house. I am a real estate appraiser and this home is just one of those homes that pops up once every couple years. And with a new baby, we find this property to be a HOME for us for many years.

Second, here are the details.
Our new agent called the listing agents office this morning (before he hired him) just to see what the status of the property was. The listing agents office (his assistant) told our new agent that the Property Has Sold. So, I called our agent who wrote up the first offer and I asked her if she had heard anything from the listing agent regarding our offer. And if they have SOLD the property, then we wanted the signed rejection of our offer and we wanted it right now (I did not believe the listing agents office that the property was actually sold). Our agen spoke directly to the listing agent and he told the listing agent "I have yet to be able to meet with my client/seller as she is traveling and or in meetings today, but we should have something this afternoon". So, the listing agents office lied to the other agent by saying the property had sold, when the agent himself is telling us that NONE of the offers have even been presented or reviewed by the client/seller. He did confirm that he had written up another offer from the neighbor (dual agency), but that these have not been presented. So, why did his office lie about the property being sold?

With that in mind, and because the listing agent had expressly stated that an offer has not been accepted (and despite the fact that the listing agent continued to say that he did not want a higher offer), we hired another agent (which was 100% fine with our original agent. She actually recommended it). We wrote up a higher offer, and better terms. One that no seller or agent would want to turn away.

So, now here it comes. At 3:10pm our original agent receives a call from the listing agent who says "I believe that my client is flying back in to town this evening and we need another 24 hours to present and review the offers with my client". Within 5 minutes of that phone call to our original agent we withdrew our initial offer and e-mailed over to his office our NEW offer from our new agent. One that was the higher price with great terms. We got an e-mail response from the listing agent 30 minutes later saying, and I quote "The home is sold. Thank you."

Lie number two just today. So, he told one agent, twice today, that our offer was still on the table and that he had not had the opportunity to present any offers as of yet, and then moments later tell another agent, twice, that the property was sold. He obviously will not take the higher offer to his client, and here are the reasons...

1) Throughout this ordeal, the listing agent has continued to indicate he does not want a better offer. A little strange as why wouldnt anyone want more money, especially these days.

2) We have determined that there is a relocation company that may be involved in all of this. We believe the relocation company has an agreement with the homeowner as to how much they will pay the homeowner for the property, not matter what the final sales amount is (this is why the listing agent already has 3 appraisals on the property) The homeowner probably really doesnt care about how much money the home sells for as the relocation company is going to pay her a certain amount anyway. So, why doesnt the agent want more money or a better offer? Because with the way things stand now, as long as he gets his asking price, the seller is happy and the relocation company is happy. Now, if HE can get dual agency and pick up extra commission as well as get another listing, by selling the new buyers house, then hey, the offer that gives him the most in his pocket is the one he wants to go with. BUT, if a higher offer comes in, then that means he needs to advise his buyers to up their offer, which he doesnt want to do.

3) For the above reason, #2, we offered more. We know we have the best offer out there, but that offer is never going to get to the seller or the relocation company because it is not the best deal for HIM. And it obviously will not be the best deal for the relocation company.

Can the agent say the property is SOLD and not take our offer to the client, when in fact no offers have been reviewed, nor accepted? And how about his bold faced lies. Either way you want to look at it, he lied to one of our agents, and did that twice today. Can we pursue legal means and hold up this transaction? How about trying to find out who the relocation company is and present our offer directly to them?

Any suggestions or anyone know of a good real estate attorney here in Northern California?

[ciscovpn]

Keep us posted on the eventual outcome.