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Old 05-20-2011, 01:32 PM
 
1,073 posts, read 2,680,885 times
Reputation: 948

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Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
While it certainly sounds like you didn't have good experiences, you have to take the bulk of the responsibility. I'm amazed that someone would allow themselves to put themselves in the two positions above.

That's like blaming the car salesman for paying too much or getting extras you didn't want.
I am not sure where you saw me "blame" anyone other than ourselves:

Quote:
Originally Posted by marmom View Post
I realize the whole thing is ultimately our responsibility.....
Although I am not sure how the fraud on the appraisal that was used to justify the asking price was our fault .
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
10,940 posts, read 21,914,344 times
Reputation: 10571
I wanted to give a good chance for comments before I made any comments.

To sum up the problems as I see it:
1-There are some real estate agents out there that are dolts. They lack the experience or knowledge to really do a good job for their clients. Most consumers don't know how to interview and decipher which ones are actually good and therefore have a bad experience.

2-Any agent who claims they aren't in it for the money is a liar and probably shouldn't be used. The real challenge is getting an agent who puts the client need ahead their own.

3-There is mistrust of people that are commission based employees. Again, goes back to finding an agent that puts the client first.

Getting referrals from friends family will help and then meeting with multiple agents in an interview process will help make sure the client gets a good agent. Does that sound about right?
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:44 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,574 posts, read 46,060,080 times
Reputation: 16273
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmom View Post
I am not sure where you saw me "blame" anyone other than ourselves:



Although I am not sure how the fraud on the appraisal that was used to justify the asking price was our fault .
I didn't say you blamed anyone else. I am honestly pretty shocked that anyone would let those things happen to them.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:07 PM
 
1,073 posts, read 2,680,885 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
I didn't say you blamed anyone else. I am honestly pretty shocked that anyone would let those things happen to them.
You said it was "like blaming a used car salesman...."

It is shocking to me too that we were so naive. We trusted that the realtor was giving us valid, truthful answers and that she was working with our interests in mind. When we questioned certain things, she gave what seemed to be plausible answers. Homes were selling at full-price offers at the time (it was at the peak of the housing bubble). In fact, we were outbid on a previous full price offer. The difference was that the asking price on her friend's home was significantly inflated, and we did not know it was inflated. She said it was a fair price. We did not have an in-depth the knowledge of the neighborhood or access to the mls to know what was really going on. As for the inspection, she claimed that it was common practice for the seller to choose the inspector. We took everything she said at face value and treated her as a respectable professional. The realtor came to us with glowing reviews from dear friends, which is why we stuck it out with her instead of getting a second opinion. As I said, we learned our lesson.

Last edited by marmom; 05-20-2011 at 04:31 PM..
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Old 05-20-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: California
6,420 posts, read 7,637,828 times
Reputation: 13964
It has never crossed my mind that a sales person would have any authority over me but I'm glad that idea is being shed. A real authority figure is a different story. Here is why I believe reform is needed:

Federal grand jury in San Jose indicts six in mortgage fraud scheme - San Jose Mercury News
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:15 PM
 
3,735 posts, read 8,051,105 times
Reputation: 1944
Heidi60, thanks for posting. In the Bay realtors have proven to be some what of crooks. Many companies have and are going out of business over here. These articles just keep on coming. There is this really big realestate company over here, the name is at the tip of my tongue, can't think of it right now. But they have filed bankruptcy days after they published and stated that they weren't having financial problems. They are even being kicked out of their building for not paying either their rent or mortgage. It was in SFgate recently.
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
290 posts, read 571,862 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmom View Post
You said it was "like blaming a used car salesman...."

It is shocking to me too that we were so naive.

Don't feel alone, many are naive, and it is not their fault. Consumers and home sellers, if some what (not) experienced with it, can be 'sold' the wrong perception, thus impressions are multiplied.

We trusted that the realtor was giving us valid, truthful answers and that she was working with our interests in mind. When we questioned certain things, she gave what seemed to be plausible answers.

Quick answers that appear to be right on the money, come with experience. The goal is to sell property -- not tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help them, God -- at all times. They are not expected to be the expert, too. On many occasions, and at many moments, they do not know the truth, or even answers (especially outside their specialization), so experience and smoking mirrors does count in many situations in order to close a deal, and to survive in the game

Homes were selling at full-price offers at the time (it was at the peak of the housing bubble). In fact, we were outbid on a previous full price offer. The difference was that the asking price on her friend's home was significantly inflated, and we did not know it was inflated. She said it was a fair price. We did not have an in-depth the knowledge of the neighborhood or access to the mls to know what was really going on.

At the height of the bubble, the majority of property, or assets, were artificially appreciated, thus hyper-inflated. It was typical for an Appraiser to use these type of sales for "comparable testing," and assist in reconciliation; however, the best approach the Appraisers could have (should have!) taken, was to report the artificial appreciation, as well the hyper-inflation -- the Appraiser knew of these conditions, and if it was reported in the Appraisal reports (without repercussions to their business), better decisions could have been made.

As for the inspection, she claimed that it was common practice for the seller to choose the inspector. We took everything she said at face value and treated her as a respectable professional. The realtor came to us with glowing reviews from dear friends, which is why we stuck it out with her instead of getting a second opinion. As I said, we learned our lesson.
I think consumers and home sellers should take a course on the basics of buying and selling Real Estate. Matter of fact, I believe it should be mandatory for high school students, in order to educate the public about the most complex market in this country -- the market that has brought our economy to its knees on more than several occasions. And, it should be taught by Real Estate Professionals who are trained to be unbiased. The definition of Market Value suggests a knowledgeable buyer and seller -- the market failed to execute this particular value efficiently and proficiently.

Last edited by Greeenback; 05-20-2011 at 07:59 PM.. Reason: Grammar
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Old 05-20-2011, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,539 posts, read 40,308,808 times
Reputation: 17422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
It has never crossed my mind that a sales person would have any authority over me but I'm glad that idea is being shed. A real authority figure is a different story. Here is why I believe reform is needed:

Federal grand jury in San Jose indicts six in mortgage fraud scheme - San Jose Mercury News

Reform doesn't mean ethics. It isn't a guarantee that the person sitting at your table to talk to you about buying or selling your home will be good. It just means they passed what...better tests, more training?

Here is the Google Map of bad doctors. So...we need doctor licensing reform?

If you type in "bad lawyers" in google, you get a lot of information on how to deal with a bad lawyer. It isn't just one article there.

There is a site for bad plumbers. Government regulation cannot protect you from unethical people. There are a lot of unethical people that can pass tests and get licenses to do harm. The government cannot regulate ethics. Scammers will always be around and no amount of legislation will prevent that. It is up to consumers to educate and advocate for themselves.
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Old 05-21-2011, 12:53 AM
 
5,697 posts, read 19,108,689 times
Reputation: 8699
Here is a novel if you care to read...

My first home purchase was an amazing experience. We had an awesome agent that knew her stuff. I will never forget the first time I laid eyes on her. She pulled up in a Jaguar, got out and had on a leopard print coat. lol. We had a house to sell, a home my husband had bought from his grandmother via land contract before I met him. It was a little 1 bedroom house. Everyone we knew said we would never be able to sell it so we held off on contacting a realtor for a few yrs. So our agent shows up, says the house is small but there is a buyer for everything, you just have to find them. She found that person for us within 2 weeks. She found us a new house that wasn't listed yet. I was young and wanted the picture perfect place. The house she found us had orange shag carpet, a horrible 70's kitchen and so forth. She was kind and direct and pointed out the house was really a gem. Not pushy just giving me valuable knowledge. All the important stuff was done. New roof, plumbing, furnace etc. She was right and my husband and I had a blast fixing up the place. Pure cosmetic. She hooked us up with a mortgage guy that was awesome and everything fell right into place. She spoiled us because the home buying experiences after that were nightmares. We had no clue on what horrible things could go wrong.

Nightmare 1- Tried to get a hold of our awesome first agent 6 yrs later but by this time she was semi retired and only lived in the state 2 months out of the year. I found someone else. A nice woman (or so I thought). Very personable, always available and lived in the city we were looking to buy. She was pregnant and asked if this would be a concern for me. I said no, not at all. She listed our house and right away wanted to have an open house almost every damn weekend. Our first agent said they were a waste of time so I was surprised this woman was so pushy about it. We had 3. It was a huge headache leaving the house for hours every weekend. All we got was the nosey neighbors coming through. She constantly gave me listings for homes I didnt want. She said nothing I wanted was in my price range. I would get on realtor.com and find several. Then she would say..."oh that must be a new listing." I actually found our new house on my own. Had a lock box and would come home from work to find our garage open, lights left on and so forth. Our agent said she would contact us anytime we had a showing. I would call her up and she would say no one looked at the house. I told her many times someone has been in the house. She would say stuff like maybe you left the door open yourself, maybe the cats did this or that. Ya..I got a talented cats.

She turned out to be really ditzy and I lost confidence in her. She also started telling me a lot of personal stuff about her life which I didnt really want to know. I assumed she was married because she wore a ring but turns out she had a flaky boyfriend that wasnt sure he wanted to be a father..blah blah. All of a sudden it didnt seem like a business deal anymore almost like I needed to help her out because she was going to be a single mom soon. I was all ready set to ditch her as the contract was almost up but she got us a buyer. She also was pushy about us using a mortgage broker she knew well. She kept saying we were getting ripped off on our current mortgage terms. I agreed to meet the guy and he gave us a much better rate etc. A woman I worked with had worked with the guy in the past, so we went with him. He was very well known..

Turns out he was a raging drunk that fell off the wagon and never got our loan to underwriting but gave us a closing date, the same day we were closing on the house we were selling. I thought something was wrong and he was horrible about returning phone calls but our agent said she was in contact with him almost daily, not to worry (found out later she was lying). She even made me feel like I was being paranoid. So we go to close and I find out we were not closing on the new place. In fact, no one knew what was going on with our new mortgage. I refused to sign on the current house. Everyone freaked.The broker called in her real estate lawyer husband who started screaming at my husband and I. He said we were going to be sued if we didnt sign. He was so threatening my husband leaped up and they were going to fist fight. The buyers agent started yelling. Everyone was yelling. Then our agent started faking labor pains. I told her that her job was not to make me homeless but to help us sell and buy a new place. She did not have our back at all. It was all these people against us. She said she only had an obligation to sell our house and stormed out of the office. I said I wasnt signing a damn thing till the mortgage guy faxed over a set closing date. They kept saying it will happen tomorrow blah blah. Why am I being so difficult? So we waited and waited. 2 hrs later the mortgage guy faxes over a closing date. A whole month later than "tomorrow". I was pissed. But we felt our hands were tied and closed on our house, then had to pay rent to our buyer. I felt duped and stupid. I was so angry at myself, that I let myself get into that awful situation. Nothing felt right from the beginning. When we finally closed on the new house, our agent gave us a gift. A fireplace kit for all our troubles. Well the thing is our house didnt have a fireplace. A few weeks later that mortgage guy was fired from his job. Shocker. Our buyers agent contacted the realtor board (he was so stunned at what happened but his first obligation was to his client not us) and we also put in a complaint. The broker and our agent were put under an investigation. So obviously something was shady. Our agent showed up a few months later at my home to show off her new baby. In her mind she thought we were friends or something. What an idiot.

Nightmare 2- My husband was offered a job out of state and his new job set us up with a "relocation specialist". HR had an agent show up to the hotel after my husband accepted the job. She spent the whole day driving us around, buying us lunch and so forth. She seemed really great. We signed a contract with her. At first she was cool. My husband told her that he needed to focus on his new job and I would be the one house hunting with her. She was fine with this. Hubby is pretty easy going. All he ever wants in a house is a good neighborhood, basement and 2 car garage. The rest is left up to me.

My agent started to get all motherly with me. Telling me what I needed to do and so forth. I had spent many hours on this website asking for advice on where to live and everyone pretty much said the same place. Great schools, newer homes, more transplants where I would feel comfortable. My agent said nothing but snobs live in that area and was really hesitant about showing me houses. She also made it clear that she felt my husband should be the sole decision maker. I felt like I had been dropped back into 1950's. I told hubby I didnt like her and we should look for a new agent. Let the contract ride out and find someone else. He didnt understand why. He seemed fine with her (ya because he wasn't with her like I was and he was getting the special treatment). But after a few times of her showing us houses in an area we did not want to live in and her being openly rude to me, he set her straight. The "man" let her know how it was and she was back on track with us. Found a house I loved and we signed a contract. She didnt like the house I chose. Made comments all through the showing. Not sure why she even cared. The sellers rejected our offer and we moved on. After a botched deal with another house where she failed to inform us that the house was located next to a superfund site, we told her that we were done looking for a while and we would let her know in a year what we planned on doing (we were going to continue renting and never contact her again). She then says well the sellers of the house you loved contacted me. They want an offer again. Well she sat on this info for a week and wasnt going to tell us because in her mind she didnt like the house we wanted. But she didnt want to lose our business so told us about the house. I wanted the house badly and so did my husband. Our lease was up and we just wanted to get settled. So we let her do the deal.

The sellers ended up being a pain and kept changing their minds on what they wanted to leave behind even though contracts were signed. The woman had a fit about leaving her drapes. So my agent told her to go ahead and take them along with whatever else they wanted. My agent also kept saying a 24 hr walk through was over kill. I kept insisting on it. Well our appraiser told me I could go in the house since it was empty. i walked in and found stuff missing. I called our agent and she said she would find out what happened. Instead she called my husband and confessed she told the seller to take what she wanted because she (our agent) had plans to purchase me all new window coverings as a move in present. She just felt so badly about how we had gotten off to a rough start. (YA right.) I couldnt believe she went behind our backs like that. We agreed to close and she promised me at closing she would have a hefty gift card for me to buy new drapes. That didnt happen. She didnt say a word all through closing. Whatever. Occasionally she sends us business cards. I toss em in the trash.

So obviously I suck at picking out realtors. I got lucky the first time I suppose. Hopefully I wont ever move again.
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,539 posts, read 40,308,808 times
Reputation: 17422
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post
Here is a novel if you care to read...

My first home purchase was an amazing experience. We had an awesome agent that knew her stuff. I will never forget the first time I laid eyes on her. She pulled up in a Jaguar, got out and had on a leopard print coat. lol. We had a house to sell, a home my husband had bought from his grandmother via land contract before I met him. It was a little 1 bedroom house. Everyone we knew said we would never be able to sell it so we held off on contacting a realtor for a few yrs. So our agent shows up, says the house is small but there is a buyer for everything, you just have to find them. She found that person for us within 2 weeks. She found us a new house that wasn't listed yet. I was young and wanted the picture perfect place. The house she found us had orange shag carpet, a horrible 70's kitchen and so forth. She was kind and direct and pointed out the house was really a gem. Not pushy just giving me valuable knowledge. All the important stuff was done. New roof, plumbing, furnace etc. She was right and my husband and I had a blast fixing up the place. Pure cosmetic. She hooked us up with a mortgage guy that was awesome and everything fell right into place. She spoiled us because the home buying experiences after that were nightmares. We had no clue on what horrible things could go wrong.

Nightmare 1- Tried to get a hold of our awesome first agent 6 yrs later but by this time she was semi retired and only lived in the state 2 months out of the year. I found someone else. A nice woman (or so I thought). Very personable, always available and lived in the city we were looking to buy. She was pregnant and asked if this would be a concern for me. I said no, not at all. She listed our house and right away wanted to have an open house almost every damn weekend. Our first agent said they were a waste of time so I was surprised this woman was so pushy about it. We had 3. It was a huge headache leaving the house for hours every weekend. All we got was the nosey neighbors coming through. She constantly gave me listings for homes I didnt want. She said nothing I wanted was in my price range. I would get on realtor.com and find several. Then she would say..."oh that must be a new listing." I actually found our new house on my own. Had a lock box and would come home from work to find our garage open, lights left on and so forth. Our agent said she would contact us anytime we had a showing. I would call her up and she would say no one looked at the house. I told her many times someone has been in the house. She would say stuff like maybe you left the door open yourself, maybe the cats did this or that. Ya..I got a talented cats.

She turned out to be really ditzy and I lost confidence in her. She also started telling me a lot of personal stuff about her life which I didnt really want to know. I assumed she was married because she wore a ring but turns out she had a flaky boyfriend that wasnt sure he wanted to be a father..blah blah. All of a sudden it didnt seem like a business deal anymore almost like I needed to help her out because she was going to be a single mom soon. I was all ready set to ditch her as the contract was almost up but she got us a buyer. She also was pushy about us using a mortgage broker she knew well. She kept saying we were getting ripped off on our current mortgage terms. I agreed to meet the guy and he gave us a much better rate etc. A woman I worked with had worked with the guy in the past, so we went with him. He was very well known..

Turns out he was a raging drunk that fell off the wagon and never got our loan to underwriting but gave us a closing date, the same day we were closing on the house we were selling. I thought something was wrong and he was horrible about returning phone calls but our agent said she was in contact with him almost daily, not to worry (found out later she was lying). She even made me feel like I was being paranoid. So we go to close and I find out we were not closing on the new place. In fact, no one knew what was going on with our new mortgage. I refused to sign on the current house. Everyone freaked.The broker called in her real estate lawyer husband who started screaming at my husband and I. He said we were going to be sued if we didnt sign. He was so threatening my husband leaped up and they were going to fist fight. The buyers agent started yelling. Everyone was yelling. Then our agent started faking labor pains. I told her that her job was not to make me homeless but to help us sell and buy a new place. She did not have our back at all. It was all these people against us. She said she only had an obligation to sell our house and stormed out of the office. I said I wasnt signing a damn thing till the mortgage guy faxed over a set closing date. They kept saying it will happen tomorrow blah blah. Why am I being so difficult? So we waited and waited. 2 hrs later the mortgage guy faxes over a closing date. A whole month later than "tomorrow". I was pissed. But we felt our hands were tied and closed on our house, then had to pay rent to our buyer. I felt duped and stupid. I was so angry at myself, that I let myself get into that awful situation. Nothing felt right from the beginning. When we finally closed on the new house, our agent gave us a gift. A fireplace kit for all our troubles. Well the thing is our house didnt have a fireplace. A few weeks later that mortgage guy was fired from his job. Shocker. Our buyers agent contacted the realtor board (he was so stunned at what happened but his first obligation was to his client not us) and we also put in a complaint. The broker and our agent were put under an investigation. So obviously something was shady. Our agent showed up a few months later at my home to show off her new baby. In her mind she thought we were friends or something. What an idiot.

Nightmare 2- My husband was offered a job out of state and his new job set us up with a "relocation specialist". HR had an agent show up to the hotel after my husband accepted the job. She spent the whole day driving us around, buying us lunch and so forth. She seemed really great. We signed a contract with her. At first she was cool. My husband told her that he needed to focus on his new job and I would be the one house hunting with her. She was fine with this. Hubby is pretty easy going. All he ever wants in a house is a good neighborhood, basement and 2 car garage. The rest is left up to me.

My agent started to get all motherly with me. Telling me what I needed to do and so forth. I had spent many hours on this website asking for advice on where to live and everyone pretty much said the same place. Great schools, newer homes, more transplants where I would feel comfortable. My agent said nothing but snobs live in that area and was really hesitant about showing me houses. She also made it clear that she felt my husband should be the sole decision maker. I felt like I had been dropped back into 1950's. I told hubby I didnt like her and we should look for a new agent. Let the contract ride out and find someone else. He didnt understand why. He seemed fine with her (ya because he wasn't with her like I was and he was getting the special treatment). But after a few times of her showing us houses in an area we did not want to live in and her being openly rude to me, he set her straight. The "man" let her know how it was and she was back on track with us. Found a house I loved and we signed a contract. She didnt like the house I chose. Made comments all through the showing. Not sure why she even cared. The sellers rejected our offer and we moved on. After a botched deal with another house where she failed to inform us that the house was located next to a superfund site, we told her that we were done looking for a while and we would let her know in a year what we planned on doing (we were going to continue renting and never contact her again). She then says well the sellers of the house you loved contacted me. They want an offer again. Well she sat on this info for a week and wasnt going to tell us because in her mind she didnt like the house we wanted. But she didnt want to lose our business so told us about the house. I wanted the house badly and so did my husband. Our lease was up and we just wanted to get settled. So we let her do the deal.

The sellers ended up being a pain and kept changing their minds on what they wanted to leave behind even though contracts were signed. The woman had a fit about leaving her drapes. So my agent told her to go ahead and take them along with whatever else they wanted. My agent also kept saying a 24 hr walk through was over kill. I kept insisting on it. Well our appraiser told me I could go in the house since it was empty. i walked in and found stuff missing. I called our agent and she said she would find out what happened. Instead she called my husband and confessed she told the seller to take what she wanted because she (our agent) had plans to purchase me all new window coverings as a move in present. She just felt so badly about how we had gotten off to a rough start. (YA right.) I couldnt believe she went behind our backs like that. We agreed to close and she promised me at closing she would have a hefty gift card for me to buy new drapes. That didnt happen. She didnt say a word all through closing. Whatever. Occasionally she sends us business cards. I toss em in the trash.

So obviously I suck at picking out realtors. I got lucky the first time I suppose. Hopefully I wont ever move again.
No you don't suck at picking REALTORS at all, but what you are doing is classic. You KNEW that something wasn't right with either of those two agents. You knew it but didn't walk away anyway. It isn't your people picking skills in question. Those seem solid. It's your "get over feeling guilty because you are firing someone that spent time on you" feelings that you need to get over. Just like agents get training on scripts to talk consumers into using their services, consumers need training on how to say "thank you for your time. We are done working with you" and sticking to it.

The world won't end if you fire your real estate agent. You had a good experience once so you know what it should be like. There are others out there like her. Really...there are.
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