Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ok, I am looking for a little friendly information from local pros. Not looking for LEGAL advice, just general information that will help me make some decisions.
I have been looking at lower priced properties in the state I live in (CA), that is all I can afford. I have seen quite a few that sparked my interest. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS SEVERAL OF THESE HOMES HAVE NON-PERMITTED ROOMS.
Can somebody in the know shed a little light on the implications of buying such a home.
I know some things, or I think I know some things about this subject:
1. when I sell I must disclose this fact
2. when I go to get a permit to do work on house I will run into problems????
3. building inspector on site will without a doubt have a cow when he compares blueprints to acutal structure.
Other questions???
1. Can city/county order tear down of non-permitted work......and how likely is that to happen????
2. How hard is it to get the non-permitted work into compliance, I am not talking about the actual work needed, I mean jumping the ropes to get into compliance???
3. If I buy a house that has non-permitted rooms could I be responsible for some fine that the city has that has not been revealed to me????
4. Could some government snoop just happen to notice my non-permitted rooms (say a building inspector in the area) and start the cities/counties legal hammer to my head/property???
ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAN BE ADDED IS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
There are so many unknowns here, like if the work was done with good quality and up to building codes, but just not permitted. Where you live and how strict they are. Your best source for information is to call or visit the planning or building commission for the city where you want to buy and ask them these questions. Every house, city, neighborhood, home-addition could have a different answer.
Yes, you have to disclose when you sell if non-permitted work was done on the house. We normally see something like "600 sq ft unpermitted bonus room is not included in the square footage listed" or if unknown, "buyer to verify status of permits for addition".
There are so many unknowns here, like if the work was done with good quality and up to building codes, but just not permitted. Where you live and how strict they are. Your best source for information is to call or visit the planning or building commission for the city where you want to buy and ask them these questions. Every house, city, neighborhood, home-addition could have a different answer.
Yes, you have to disclose when you sell if non-permitted work was done on the house. We normally see something like "600 sq ft unpermitted bonus room is not included in the square footage listed" or if unknown, "buyer to verify status of permits for addition".
Thanks a lot. If I buy the place, my MAIN worry is some official snooping around, even close by......and seeing the irregularities..........and that gets the ball rolling for more and more trouble.
Definitely call your municipality and ask. If you are just looking at houses, just tell them that and ask it hypothetically. Some areas are not too much problem with doing inspections of previous unpermitted work and some are totally a PITA about it. I doubt they would make you tear it down unless it was really bad, but I would not be surprised if they had you cut a hole in the sheetrock here and there so they can look in the walls. Around here, at least one city will make you pay a double fee for the permit if it is for past work with one, but you are still talking in the hundreds, not thousands or anything.
Whatever you do make sure you have these properties inspected by a qualified local inspector as a contingency in any offer.
Great advice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul
Ok, I am looking for a little friendly information from local pros. Not looking for LEGAL advice, just general information that will help me make some decisions.
I have been looking at lower priced properties in the state I live in (CA), that is all I can afford. I have seen quite a few that sparked my interest. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS SEVERAL OF THESE HOMES HAVE NON-PERMITTED ROOMS.
Can somebody in the know shed a little light on the implications of buying such a home.
I know some things, or I think I know some things about this subject:
1. when I sell I must disclose this fact
2. when I go to get a permit to do work on house I will run into problems????
3. building inspector on site will without a doubt have a cow when he compares blueprints to actual structure.
Other questions???
1. Can city/county order tear down of non-permitted work......and how likely is that to happen????
2. How hard is it to get the non-permitted work into compliance, I am not talking about the actual work needed, I mean jumping the ropes to get into compliance???
3. If I buy a house that has non-permitted rooms could I be responsible for some fine that the city has that has not been revealed to me????
4. Could some government snoop just happen to notice my non-permitted rooms (say a building inspector in the area) and start the cities/counties legal hammer to my head/property???
ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAN BE ADDED IS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
On the things listed in your "things I know" section, disclosure is probably a good idea when you go to sell, especially if it was disclosed to you during the purchase process. That said, the fact that work was done unpermitted by a previous owner shouldn't hinder you from obtaining a permit for different work and I don't know how the inspector will react when comparing blueprints to actual structure.
Now on all your "other questions" listed above, I believe you will be fine on all those items except maybe #2, trying to get the non-compliant additions/changes into compliance. I would go to the municipality and ask them about your responsibility for previous owners' non-permitted additions and changes. The other posters in this thread have given you some great advice.
One other thing I just learned in the past few months is that here in NC appraisers are actually discounting the dollars psf of non-permitted additions and changes. I thought I was being fed a line until I did a little research and I found out it was true. Now, it might be limited to USDA appraisals (that's what I was working on when this came up), but it's definitely a factor when determining value.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,585 posts, read 81,186,228 times
Reputation: 57820
The main problem is a buyer not being able to qualify if the appraisal is lower, or the lender requires PMI. That will mean a more detailed inspection and the insurance people may require that it be restored
to code before they will approve it. That happened to us on a garage conversion, and in that case, no way the county would allow the permit after the fact. due to regulations about off street parking. They required
that it be changed back to a garage (I called hypothetically) and the buyer didn't want it under those circumstances, they couldn't get PMI so we had to start all over. These days any work that's done with permit allows the inspector to see other things like old wiring, and force you to
bring that up to code at the same time.
I'd suggest an offer contingent upon everything being brought up to code. They can either have the city inspector in and then pay for the work, or reject your offer. Keep in mind that even a neighbor angry about your barking dog, loud music or tree hanging over their fence can
call the city to report the unpermitted rooms and you will have to fix it.
Thanks a lot. If I buy the place, my MAIN worry is some official snooping around, even close by......and seeing the irregularities..........and that gets the ball rolling for more and more trouble.
I doubt that an official would just be snooping around, but I guess that's always a possibility. There are some things that might invite an inspection, like too many stories, an obvious infringement on the boundaries (too close to the road/property line) or even an irritated neighbor that is annoyed about the addition.
Definitely call your municipality and ask. If you are just looking at houses, just tell them that and ask it hypothetically. Some areas are not too much problem with doing inspections of previous unpermitted work and some are totally a PITA about it. I doubt they would make you tear it down unless it was really bad, but I would not be surprised if they had you cut a hole in the sheetrock here and there so they can look in the walls. Around here, at least one city will make you pay a double fee for the permit if it is for past work with one, but you are still talking in the hundreds, not thousands or anything.
Yeah, I live in Californiatard, the County employees are usually not very helpful, but thanks for the advice, will give it a try. And yeah, if they are getting any sort of permit inspections in San Diego County....well, you are going to pay and pay and pay and pay. Doing my best to get as much information before I jump in..............thanks!
On the things listed in your "things I know" section, disclosure is probably a good idea when you go to sell, especially if it was disclosed to you during the purchase process. That said, the fact that work was done unpermitted by a previous owner shouldn't hinder you from obtaining a permit for different work and I don't know how the inspector will react when comparing blueprints to actual structure.
Now on all your "other questions" listed above, I believe you will be fine on all those items except maybe #2, trying to get the non-compliant additions/changes into compliance. I would go to the municipality and ask them about your responsibility for previous owners' non-permitted additions and changes. The other posters in this thread have given you some great advice.
One other thing I just learned in the past few months is that here in NC appraisers are actually discounting the dollars psf of non-permitted additions and changes. I thought I was being fed a line until I did a little research and I found out it was true. Now, it might be limited to USDA appraisals (that's what I was working on when this came up), but it's definitely a factor when determining value.
Yeah, this is a distressed property that has been on the market for quite a while, hopefully I can get it cheap. I will make a big issue about the non-permitted rooms.......nice.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
