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Quote: Originally Posted by Captain Bill That is not correct.
54: AD R ... "B & B agree to mediate any dispute or claim arising out of or relating to this agreement in accordance with the "mediation procedures" of the applicable stateor local Realtor association oras otherwise agreed.
Quote:
by RE Skeptic.....
Translation... unless the buyer specifies otherwise (highly unlikely), disputes undergo mediation.
Neither the buyer nor the agent can specify otherwise. In the Buyer Broker Employment Agreement, both parties "agree" to Mediation. They both also agree in the contract to Binding Arbitration in the event a mutual solution cannot be reached in Mediation.
Mediation and Arbitration (Alternate Dispute Resolution) are much cheaper and faster solutions than going to court, which is why many contracts agree to use ADR.
Quote:
by RE Skeptic.....Mediator is chosen by local or state REALTOR association. Are you disputing this?
The buyer broker contract does not state that the Mediator is chosen by local or state Realtor Association.
It states:
...54: ADR ... "B & B agree to mediate any dispute or claim arising out of or relating to this agreement in accordance with the "mediation procedures" of the applicable stateor local Realtor association oras otherwise agreed...
Quote:
by RE Skeptic.....According to your contract, the BA is obligated to: 1) locate property, 2) negotiate and 3) provide advice within the agents "scope of expertise". The bar is set so low for the agent, it is almost impossible for them to breach. That does not mean the agent is not blatantly incompetent or unethical.
You're mixing three different concepts here.
An agent being incompetent in the performance of his/her duties is one concept
An agent being unethical is another concept
The other concept is whether the agent is practicing real estate within his/her "scope of expertise".
A residential (1-4 units) agent should not be practicing any of these other disciplines without proper training to gain expertise in that field:
Property management,
Commercial (5+ residential units)
Commercial buildings.
Industrial
Business brokerage
Appraisal, etc
Quote:
by RE Skeptic.....Do you really believe this is a balanced agreement b/t buyer and broker? Just b/c a buyer signs this does not mean it is a fair contract. Most buyers feel that they really have no other choice if they want BA representation and I doubt they understand all of the nuances of the contract that can work against them.
I know it's a balanced agreement. And as has been mentioned, every buyer has the right and ability to consult with an attorney or any other adviser.
How about you listing all the things you believe a Buyer Broker contract should include in order to be fair to both buyer and broker.
Agreed !! Realtors use documents prepared by their state's legal representatives and not merely written on the fly.
As with any legal document, if a consumer has any doubt about the content or wording they should consult an attorney and that is their right.
In TX:
(a) The Texas Real Estate Broker-Lawyer Committee consists of 13 members appointed as follows:
(1) six members appointed by the commission;
(2) six members of the State Bar of Texas appointed by the president of the state bar; and
(3) one public member appointed by the governor.
I would assume the intent of the state is to keep it extremely legal and to protect the rights of it's citizens.
How about you listing all the things you believe a Buyer Broker contract should include in order to be fair to both buyer and broker.
Good point, instead of taking the easy way and just finding fault how about a proposed solution?
There has to be some sort of contractual agreement since there's rather large sums of money involved. Personally I'd be highly suspect of the intentions of anyone who espouses that one isn't needed having been really burned badly in the recent past believing a handshake is good enough nowadays.
Mediation and Arbitration (Alternate Dispute Resolution) are much cheaper and faster solutions than going to court, which is why many contracts agree to use ADR.
Agree, it may be cheaper and faster. However b/c the mediator or arbitrator are usually selected by one party, they are not neutral. So, the party that selects the mediator has an advantage.
Quote:
The buyer broker contract does not state that the Mediator is chosen by local or state Realtor Association.
That's not what I said, I stated that the "mediation procedures" where directed by the REALTOR Association, NOT THE BROKER.
So the question, which you have yet to answer, is: In AZ, by default, does the REALTOR (local or state) Association direct or choose the mediator when there is a dispute b/t the buyer and broker?
Quote:
by RE Skeptic.....According to your contract, the BA is obligated to: 1) locate property, 2) negotiate and 3) provide advice within the agents "scope of expertise". The bar is set so low for the agent, it is almost impossible for them to breach. That does not mean the agent is not blatantly incompetent or unethical.
Quote:
by Captain Bill...
You're mixing three different concepts here.
An agent being incompetent in the performance of his/her duties is one concept
An agent being unethical is another concept
The other concept is whether the agent is practicing real estate within his/her "scope of expertise".
I understand the concepts. My point is that if an agent is incompetent and/or unethical, it is does not release the buyer from the BA agreement. The buyer would have to prove that the agent didn't: locate a property, negotiate or didn't provide advice within their scope of expertise to prove a breach and get out of the contract. Tough to do!
Quote:
How about you listing all the things you believe a Buyer Broker contract should include in order to be fair to both buyer and broker.
Happy to do so, once you answer the question above.
Agreed !! Realtors use documents prepared by their state's legal representatives and not merely written on the fly.
Where did I ever say that the documents (contracts) were "written on the fly"? On the contrary, I think the the REALTOR Asssocations put alot of time and legal expertise into drafting contracts that protect and favor their constituents (the REALTORS).
When I am interviewing for the job of buyer's agent, it makes sense for both of us to know if we are compatible, sooner rather than later, before we invest a lot of time and energy.
I spend time with prospective buyers before making appointments and heading out to look at properties. When possible, I prefer to visit them in their current home or minimally see pictures of it and their stuff. I need to know what makes them tick -what they need/want and most importantly, why.
If buying is contingent upon selling their current home then I need to know the liklihood of their current home getting a contract and going the distance to closing. If they need what they perceive to be the equity in their current home to move, I need to know how realistic their expectations are.
I don't get skunked and vice-versa.
That is a smart, rational approach that many agents should follow! --- My experience in several sales fields (not directly in RE, but, watching there), has been that many folks believe their job is to "go through the motions of the job, as demonstrated by others." They lose sight of the fact that their real job is to actually sell something, ... not simply 'try' to sell something!
I used to tell my field sales people: "You can present a hum-dinger of a sales presentation, visit a a dozen people daily, and salute the flag or eat apple pie three times a day --- but, unless you regularly sell something, you will soon be doing another job. (These were high base plus commission and bonus jobs in a professional environment).
Originally Posted by dontaskwhy
Agreed !! Realtors use documents prepared by their state's legal representatives and not merely written on the fly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin
In TX:
(a) The Texas Real Estate Broker-Lawyer Committee consists of 13 members appointed as follows:
(1) six members appointed by the commission;
(2) six members of the State Bar of Texas appointed by the president of the state bar; and
(3) one public member appointed by the governor.
I would assume the intent of the state is to keep it extremely legal and to protect the rights of it's citizens.
Rakin,
1) The committee that you referenced is a part of a state agency (TREC), but they do not draft the RE contracts in TX. Agree?
2) The TX Association REALTORS (TAR) drafts and distributes the RE contracts in TX. This is not a state agency, but a private association. Agree?
The issue I raised is the inequity of RE contracts developed by RE Associations, not the composition of the TX RE Commission.
Seems like you're spinning the issue by implying that the contracts are written by a state agency to "protect the rights of it's citizens"?[/b]
Dontaskwhy,
You state the "documents" that RE agents use are written by "the state's legal representatives". Do you mean governmental "representatives" or private (RE Association) "representatives"?
It is an important distinction. One is a citizen's advocate, the other advocates for REALTORS.
1) The committee that you referenced is a part of a state agency (TREC), but they do not draft the RE contracts in TX. Agree?
Wrong... TREC adopts the contracts generated by the Broker Lawyer committee for us to use. They are very balanced.
2) The TX Association REALTORS (TAR) drafts and distributes the RE contracts in TX. This is not a state agency, but a private association. Agree?
Wrong... TAR only distributes to it's members TREC forms. They do have general forms like Listing Agreements that TREC does not address but they are voluntary only.
The Realtor association does not draft the contracts we use.
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