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All you (and we) have to go on here is "hearsay".
What the agent alleges the seller told him and what you allege the agent later said to you.
The only thing to go by that's in writing was the seller not taking any responsibility.
(see MikeJ's post above: "a huge red flag that should pump steroids into the Buyers' Due Diligence")
You blame yourself for not getting something in writing.
And for not getting a 3rd party involved (like a RE attorney) to back stop you.
caveat emptor
No, I have in writing my agent telling me the space is legal.
Of course I'm angry at myself, thank you for reminding me how this is ultimately my fault. I still believe that the listing agent has a responsibility to be truthful.
I have read many cases at my real estate commission when the listing agent and buyer agent both should have known something and were fined/suspended. As others have said, they both share responsibility for what one should have disclosed and the other should have known. I would make an appointment with the owner/manager of your firm to discuss your options with the real estate commission as the carrot you dangle.
No, I have in writing my agent telling me the space is legal.
Of course I'm angry at myself, thank you for reminding me how this is ultimately my fault. I still believe that the listing agent has a responsibility to be truthful.
Well if you have your agent telling you in writing it is legal then you have a case against your buyer agent. I would certainly try and do things without an attorney first since it is easier for the company to negotiate a settlement if they don't have high attorney fees to boot. Your agent will file a claim against their E&O (errors and omission insurance) to pay your claim. Only crazy agents don't carry it, and it is mandated in some states.
It is in your buyer agent's best interest to find something to prove that email they sent you because otherwise you seem to have a solid claim against them. While I feel bad for your buyer agent, I am in agreement that when a seller attempts to skirt disclosure laws, that is a huge red flag to pull everything you can at the county and chat with the neighbors if you have to in order to get the scoop. If your buyer agent didn't at least advise you to do so, then I think they failed a bit in their fiduciary duties to you.
I'm thinking your buyer agent is about to get a huge lesson in real estate 101: The difference between omission and disclosure and how it can come back to bite you in the hiney.
Well, we now KNOW the seller knew..since this mess came to light, we have had two neighbors tell us THEY SAW HIM enclose the downstairs himself! I don't think it was legal for him to check "no rep" if he KNEW it was illegal? We have also discovered through the county Environmental Health Dept that he had applied for permits to add on to the upstairs part of the house, in his own hand he filled in that this was a 3/1 house, that was 6 years AFTER he had enclosed the downstairs (shows he knew, right?). They wouldn't approve the permit until they verified the home was in fact a 3/1 and he decided to abandon the plans.
But even with all that, the listing agent SHOULD NOT have said it was legal, should he? Maybe I'm being to lenient in not blaming my agent for getting something in writing.
And, for the record, I don't want to ruin the listing agent or try and extort some exorbitant amount of money from the brokerage, I just don't want to lose money. This is a small home in a resort town, we are expecting our third child, I had NO INTENTION of staying in this home. I wanted to live in it, enjoy it, make it a little nicer, sell it and get something more suitable for us. We are losing about $50K as things stand, it's not right. We trusted the agent and he lied, period.
Attorney time. And I really hope I didn't come across as rubbing salt in your wounds. There are enough crummy people who want to sue because the toilet seat is loose, but when you say you are looking at a $50,000 hit, you are not one of those people. That is not immaterial pain and I feel for you.
Read items (b) and (c) If you check "No Representation", you have no duty to disclose the conditions or characteristics of the property, even if
you should have known of them. http://www.ncrec.gov/forms/rec422.pdf
I am not an attorney, and you need to talk to one, but it seems that seller is not lying by making No Representation. Basically the seller is putting all DD on the buyer, and we do live in a caveat emptor state.
I am not going to offer any opinion on what your redress may be, if any.
You really need to pull together all documentation and consult with an attorney.
Well if you have your agent telling you in writing it is legal then you have a case against your buyer agent. I would certainly try and do things without an attorney first since it is easier for the company to negotiate a settlement if they don't have high attorney fees to boot. Your agent will file a claim against their E&O (errors and omission insurance) to pay your claim. Only crazy agents don't carry it, and it is mandated in some states.
It is in your buyer agent's best interest to find something to prove that email they sent you because otherwise you seem to have a solid claim against them. While I feel bad for your buyer agent, I am in agreement that when a seller attempts to skirt disclosure laws, that is a huge red flag to pull everything you can at the county and chat with the neighbors if you have to in order to get the scoop. If your buyer agent didn't at least advise you to do so, then I think they failed a bit in their fiduciary duties to you.
I'm thinking your buyer agent is about to get a huge lesson in real estate 101: The difference between omission and disclosure and how it can come back to bite you in the hiney.
I agree, I hate it...he was our landlord for years, I consider him a friend, but I can't let my emotions get in the way, not in this case I hope he can retrieve the emails! I was not told that checking "no representation" was any cause for alarm either
Attorney time. And I really hope I didn't come across as rubbing salt in your wounds. There are enough crummy people who want to sue because the toilet seat is loose, but when you say you are looking at a $50,000 hit, you are not one of those people. That is not immaterial pain and I feel for you.
Read items (b) and (c) If you check "No Representation", you have no duty to disclose the conditions or characteristics of the property, even if
you should have known of them. http://www.ncrec.gov/forms/rec422.pdf
I am not an attorney, and you need to talk to one, but it seems that seller is not lying by making No Representation. Basically the seller is putting all DD on the buyer, and we do live in a caveat emptor state.
I am not going to offer any opinion on what your redress may be, if any.
You really need to pull together all documentation and consult with an attorney.
Oh, no! I didn't think that at all! I am gathering every scrap of info I can, going through all my emails, talking to everyone. Like I said, this was my first home, I thought I did what I was supposed to do and I suppose I was just too naive in trusting the word of the very people that do this for a living...the people we EMPLOYED to help us...it's very disheartening. I am holding onto the hope that the agency that sold the home will see that we are not trying to be unreasonable and will try and come to some sort of settlement with us. We do not just have extra funds laying around for attorney fees and with a new baby on the way I just want to figure this out ASAP!!!
hope that the agency that sold the home will see that we are not trying to be unreasonable and will try and come to some sort of settlement with us. We do not just have extra funds laying around for attorney fees and with a new baby on the way I just want to figure this out ASAP!!!
Ummm..... not going to happen. Without a lawyer, you may as well toss in the towel. No one will help you unless you give them a reason.
Ummm..... not going to happen. Without a lawyer, you may as well toss in the towel. No one will help you unless you give them a reason.
The reason to try and resolve (I refuse to call it "help") is that this is a small chain of islands and I am a loud woman. They did wrong and this is an opportunity for them to correct their mistake without me resorting to turning them into the NCREC and dragging lawyers into things. They would most certainly spend more on a lawyer by the time things are said and done than to just come up with a reasonable solution. I don't want to bleed them, I just don't want to be taken advantage of. This agency sells million dollar homes all day long, we were just a small home, it was their top agent who listed the house. I'm just saying it's worth a try. I am going to start contacting lawyers tomorrow though.
Is anything like this addressed in your sales contract? In our area there is a clause where the seller is agreeing that they have not built any unpermitted additions to the house.
I'm not familiar with the no respresentation clause in your state, but from the sounds of it, it sure would bring up all sorts of concern to me prior to signing a contract. It's much like buying a property as-is. Those properties generally sell for much less because the seller is trying to sell a house with problems.
I'd check with an attorney. In our area, even an as-is sale still obligates the seller to provide certain information that they may know about the houses condition.
It would be a really lousy law if a seller is not required to disclosed something like an unpermitted addition. I'd never buy a house under those sort of circumstances ("no rep").
Read items (b) and (c) If you check "No Representation", you have no duty to disclose the conditions or characteristics of the property, even if
you should have known of them. http://www.ncrec.gov/forms/rec422.pdf
Wow. I had no idea that any state would allow a seller to skirt around disclosure laws like that. Now knowing what that means there, I really think the buyer agent blew it. Wow.
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I hope he can retrieve the emails! I was not told that checking "no representation" was any cause for alarm either 
