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This question is directed at homebuyers as well as real estate agents.
I recently bought a home in the DFW area. A friend from church told me that he runs a business in which he (a construction professional) goes on the final walk through with the homebuyer to ensure that everything is in order prior to move in. Typically this is done by the homeowner with the realtor (at least I did). He points out that most realtors and homeowners are not construction professionals who can do a more thorough walkthrough because they know what to look for. Repairs that arent done properly, new damage/disrepair that arises after the inspection but before move in, etc.
My question is, is this extra fee worth it? Or is it redundant considering you already have an inspection? How come realtors dont recommend this more? (mine didnt). I guess the extra $45 is worth peace of mind. What do you guys think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life
This is why when my friend told me about his business it really resonated with me. I sure could have used him when I was buying my house. Maybe he would have caught some of the issues that I and my multi tasking realtor did not.
I have to say I'm a little put off by the blase attitude by some of the realtors. Many of you are in effect saying "If you dont catch the problems before close then that's your problem". Ummm, wtf??? This is the biggest purchase of my life and you are telling me to let things slide just because closing (and your commission) are a couple of days away??? Would you take such a lackadasical attitude if that was YOUR house with all the problems??? Somehow I doubt it very much. This was the same irritating attitude my realtor had after we found all the problems. "Oh well, you can just fix them later" she said with a shrug of her shoulders. Really??? Needless to say, we will NOT be using her or recomending her to any one we know. Do for others as you would like to be done for you is a creed it would behoove many of you realtors to learn.
From your posts you are indicating that your "friend" is running more than just a contracting business. It appears your "friend" is going beyond checking repairs that might fall under any trade license he/she has and performing an additional "inspection" for other potential issues. These are excerpts from the Texas Occupations Code which you can view for yourself here OCCUPATIONS CODE**CHAPTER 1102. REAL ESTATE INSPECTORS .
Quote:
Sec. 1102.001. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(6) "Inspector" means a person who holds a license under this chapter.
(9) "Real estate inspection" means a written or oral opinion as to the condition of the
improvements to real property, including structural items, electrical items, mechanical
systems, plumbing systems, or equipment.
Sec. 1102.002. APPLICABILITY OF CHAPTER.
(a) This chapter does not apply to a person who repairs, maintains, or inspects improvements to real property, including an electrician, plumber, carpenter, or person in the business of structural pest control in compliance with Chapter 1951, if the person does not represent to the public through personal solicitation or public advertising that the person is in the business of inspecting those improvements.
(b) This chapter does not prevent a person from performing an act the person is authorized to perform under a license or registration issued by this state or a governmental subdivision of this state under a law other than this chapter.
SUBCHAPTER C. LICENSE REQUIREMENTS
Sec. 1102.103. PROFESSIONAL INSPECTOR LICENSE REQUIRED. A person may not act as a
professional inspector in this state for a buyer or seller of real property unless the
person holds a professional inspector license under this chapter.
(Note: This applies to any of the licensed Inspector levels)
Your "friend" has more than likely already had dealings with homeowners buying or selling property and
I would fully expect at least some interaction and familiarity with licensed Home Inspectors. Your "friend"
is violating the State LAWS regarding the inspection of properties unless your "friend" also holds the
following professional licenses or limits their inspection to the specific areas of any of these
professional licenses they hold. Your friend is also violating the Texas LAWS if they are even offering you
any service related to these licensed functions. There is no license for a "construction professional" and
even a "Home Builder" can not perform any of these functions without the proper license. These are
actual licensed functions within the State of Texas who can perform an inspection under their specialty for
the buyer or seller of property in Texas.
Master Electrician
Master Plumber
HVAC (heating and cooling) Contractor.
Professional Engineer
Professional Architect
Licensed professional septic installation or maintenance company or Licensed and Registered Sanitarian if they are inspecting septic systems.
Licensed Professional Well Driller if they are inspecting any type of drilled well.
Licensed Security System Specialist if they are inspecting any security system function whatsoever.
Licensed Mold Technician or Mold Assessment Consultant.
Licensed Fire and/or Fire Safety Professional.
Licensed Pest Control professional for Pest Inspections.
I would not call your "friend" much of a "friend" if they are obviously offering you services illegally! There are more than plenty of Real Estate Inspectors out there that will offer this service to any consumer if they feel a need for it. A Real Estate Agent is more than capable to walk a buyer through a home and
assist them in identifying obvious conditions that might not have been there at the time of any inspection. For obvious licensing reasons they can only "assist you" in identifying these conditions. As for any Agent referring you to someone to perform any further "inspections" on the home they will typically be happy to provide you the names and contacts they use of properly licensed professionals.
As for your "friend" be a good "friend" to them and point this information out to them to help them cease any illegal activity that they can be prosecuted for. Also please let your "friend" know that there are hundreds of licensed Inspectors in the DFW area that do watch for people such as your "friend" and will not hesitate to report them to the State if they are performing illegal activities.
As for my post here it has nothing to do with protecting my business and eliminating any potential competition. I have absolutely no compunctions in reporting anyone that is illegally performing a licensed function in this State without the proper license. I have already reported plenty in various professions including my own. These people operating illegally are a real detriment to the consumer!
We did have an inspection. An inspector our realtor swore by. He didnt catch any of the things I mentioned. The home warranty replaced the garage door opener, but not the fence, which is now looking like being a chunk of change to have replaced. The thing is you cant see the damage to the fence from a distance. But when you get up close and actually touch the staples you can see where some are loose and will fall out sooner or later. Turns out the inspector is not required to check the fence, so I guess he didnt. When we did our walkthrough, the realtor didnt check the fence either. Yes, at the end of the day it's my house, but I didnt know any better about that. This is why inexperienced homebuyers need someone who is going to be able to help them look for things that they would otherwise ignore.
Just out of curiosity how much did your home inspection cost and how large was the home in square feet?
"Should have been"
In my opinion, after buying and selling houses eight houses in four states, inspectors proved to me to be a liability more often than not. As seller and buyer. I didnt use one after our fourth house and only did so in KY because FHA requires it. We had light switches and a shower that didnt work in our house when we bought it. NOT mentioned in the report
Why did they not work? Were they completely installed or just not functioning? If they were not completely or properly installed at the time of the inspection then yes the Inspector should have caught them. However you also have to take into account the "dishonest factor" as well. It rarely happens but sellers have done the "Switcheroo", or other activities, after the inspection. Over my time I had two calls for the "Switcheroo" tactic where sellers have replaced major pieces of equipment before the inspection and then put the old equipment back afterward before closing. Lucky for my clients on a thorough inspection my report shows dataplate information when available.
I dont think it is reasonable that a person doing a walk-through should expect to have to check those types of items.
Actually IMO I think it is very reasonable for a buyer of an existing home to perform a very basic check of everything in the home before they close just to make sure there are no potential large problems lurking there. I'm not saying they need to take the covers off equipment, etc., but even in a quick 45 minute final walkthrough before closing a buyer can quickly check all switches, lights, faucets, and perform a basic operational and visual check of all else. After the lifting of any inspection and repair contingencies the only one typically in that house is the seller. As a buyer you're getting ready to plunk down a lot of money (figuratively speaking) wouldn't you want to know if the seller just didn't give a darn and damaged or let things go to pot, or removed items that were suppose to stay before closing?
Inspectors word their contracts so they cannot be held liable.
There is no such thing as limiting or eliminating liability for fraud, gross misconduct, or other illegal or incompetent activity by an Inspector. It does not matter what State you're in if one or more of these conditions are obvious then any attempt by the Inspector to limit liability is out the window!
We wanted to speak to our inspector when our realty arbitration suit came up and he wouldnt speak to us, his secretary at one point actually--I kid you not-- told us "He doesnt really operate stuff, he just checks to see if it's OK"
People should be there for an inspection if you choose to get one. In our case, we couldnt. We had to rely on hoping that the individual doing the the work was honest. Unfortunately, we not being there proved to be a liability. So in retrospect, maybe pre-walk through service for people in our similar situation. People buying a house they have only seen once ? We even had lots of junk/left-behind items around our house that was an issue later, too. If I had known about certain issues beforehand, we could have had our realtor work these matters out thereby avoiding a complicated closing and very unpleasant arbitration So in summation, I think there might be a use for such a service in some cases.
I have placed some comments in blue above.
It is a shame that you had a bad Home Inspection experience. Unfortunately that happens more often than it should.
I have to say I'm a little put off by the blase attitude by some of the realtors. Many of you are in effect saying "If you dont catch the problems before close then that's your problem". Ummm, wtf??? This is the biggest purchase of my life and you are telling me to let things slide just because closing (and your commission) are a couple of days away??? Would you take such a lackadasical attitude if that was YOUR house with all the problems??? Somehow I doubt it very much. This was the same irritating attitude my realtor had after we found all the problems. "Oh well, you can just fix them later" she said with a shrug of her shoulders. Really??? Needless to say, we will NOT be using her or recomending her to any one we know. Do for others as you would like to be done for you is a creed it would behoove many of you realtors to learn.
I think some of the responses have to do with accepted process. Out here it works like this.
1) Look thoroughly over house, including the fence. While I am not a contractor I've been in loads of homes and tons of properties. I've gutted a 1960's home down to the studs. I can point out the obvious, like a bad fence. I can probably get you within $200 of what it would cost to fix/replace. Inspectors out here don't inspect fences or sprinkler systems. I have my buyers turn on the sprinklers while the inspector is on the roof or under the house so we can see what works. My favorite was the house that had a 22 zone sprinkler system. The buyer was out of state so I was running back and forth pushing buttons and trying to figure out the zones. That was fun.
2) Have all home inspections, regular, sewer scopes, lead paint, radon, chimney inspect, etc...
3) Negotiate repairs
4) Have repair work reinspected to confirm completion in a professional manner. I'd say about 50% of the time, the repairs were done poorly OR, my favorite, when the contractor causes a new repair with their old one. Had a plumber "fix" a leak only to start a new one.
5) Sign off on satisfaction of repair work (out here this is typically about a week before closing)
6) Do final walkthrough to confirm home is in the same condition as of the time of mutual acceptance.
Out here if the fence was in bad shape at offer it is fine if it is in bad shape at closing.
Where things get rocky is when a seller isn't honest about something they covered up like a huge carpet stain under a rug or massive wall damage from something bolted to the wall. That kind of stuff should be on disclosures. So, I don't think that anyone is saying "tough luck" on here, but more that what you are talking about should have been dealt with a long time before in the process. Those aren't final walkthrough items. Those are preoffer items.
Thanks for your reply. I guess I'm curious as to why you think it's too late? If I as the homebuyer find that repairs were not done properly or new damage occured (say a leaking pipe somewhere) I have the right to address this with the seller, either getting them to pay for the repairs or reducing the cost of the house? so why wouldnt this be a good thing for the homebuyer? I'm asking because while it's a totally new idea to me that I wasnt aware of when buying my own house, I'm not seeing the downside to it so if you could explain it to me I would appreciate it.
From a buyer perspective, the person you are hiring can't compare the previous condition to the current condition so the value there is very little.
I do differ with some in that the "Realtor" walking through with you is of even lesser value although they will probably want to tag along. At this point, the Realtor or any agent is about to cash in. Sorry, that is just the way it is. As always, your best interests are held by you for you.
When you make the offer, always videotape the house "as is" so that you have a comparative record. I am amazed that most Realtors never bother to advise their clients to do this. Then, as you attend all the inspections (a fool if you don't) videotape all areas of concern as well as the overall condition. Then when each repair is done, you videotape again. Of course you can still picture it instead but these days, HD video is the way to go, you can extract still pictures from it later.
Now when it is time for the walk-through, you preview the videos and take some of the extracted stills with you. Now you walk-through has value and you have a comparative record than would be very difficult to dispute.
With this comparative record, than as you put forth, there is a lot of value to having that contractor there. A licensed contractor can speak to standard of repair, adequate repair and the over all quality of the repair. Home inspectors often gloss over the repair or fail to detect inadequate repairs and that is a fact. A licensed contractor, if they are good, will compare the repair quality and standard to their best and this is important. While you can't usually insist on the highest quality repair standard, you can and have a right to demand an adequate repair.
One final thing, don't pay attention to a "walk though" is only a walk through and nothing more. On the contrary, a walk through should be detailed, paying close attention to everything. This is your purchase, not the agent's. If they are rushing you. politely ask them to refrain from bothering you. You are about to spend maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars and the idea of some agent or Realtor telling you the buyer, that this is only a walk through is insulting and shows if nothing else, that your best interests aren't served by them, but by yourself. This is not the time to rush through and conduct only a "walk through". My walk throughs take as long as I need to satisfy myself that things are as they should be and represent the value I am about to purchase. How can anything rushed be in your best interest?
^ KonaKat set out your answer perfectly. Once repairs are made, they should be inspected and approved by the buyer(s) before expiration of the due diligence period. Most every state now has a due diligence clause in the purchase contract which puts the ball in your court to take care of contingencies in a timely manner. The walk thru should not be done "on the way to the closing".
DD period is a time for buyers to inspect and decide whether they want the home. It is also a period where repairs are negotiated. However, agreed upon repairs are not always completed during the DD period. If this was the case the DD could potentially take months which expose the seller to a big risk.
I think the OP is referring to the walk through as a process to confirm that repairs have been made. While it is certainly preferable to identify problems well in advance of closing, it is better to identify a problem an hour before closing than hour after.
The final walk through is to allow the buyer to determine that
all agreed on repairs have been made, that
all warrantied items are operating properly, and
to see that the home is in substantially the same condition as when the purchase contract was executed.
This is spelled out in the Arizona purchase contract, and probably in other states also.
The due diligence period is when the buyer must do all their inspections, and either accept or ask and negotiate for repairs. In Arizona, any repairs must be completed by 3 days prior to close of escrow. That is typically when the final walk through is performed.
The Realtor is supposed to accompany the buyer on any and all visits to the property. It is not a "tag along".
At the time of the final walk through, one must understand that the Realtor is not a licensed inspector and is not allowed to perform the inspection. However, in Arizona, the Realtor cannot walk through the home with blinders on. S/he must watch for and point out any obvious red flags, whether it's the first visit or the final walk through.
It would not be in the agent or the buyers best interest for the agent to rush the buyer through a walk through. In fact it would be downright foolish, and even a "so called bad agent' would probably have more common sense than to even attempt to rush a client through a final walk through, or any, inspection. If the buyer missed something because of being rushed, then the agent could get sued.
Therefore, the home buyer is the one who performs the final walk through inspection; not the agent. If the buyer feels they cannot do the inspection properly, then the original inspector is the one who should be hired to do the final walk through inspection with them.
The Realtor at this point is not counting his commission, as some like to think. The Realtors job is to make sure that the escrow flows smoothly; that all required events such as final walk through, etc., are performed efficiently and on time, in order to protect their client. If a bad repair, or a defective warrantied item is discovered, then the agent is there to be prepared to immediately contact the listing agent to get the ball rolling so the repair can be completed in time to close, or negotiate an escrow amount so escrow can close and the buyer and seller can get on with their lives.
It is all about the client; getting them safely through the escrow process and into their new home. It is NOT about the agent. In any contract, Time is of the Essence, and the agents are responsible to coordinate with everyone in order to adhere to the Timeline.
I would never encourage or discourage a buyer to video tape a house; but I personally think it's a waste of time. The average joe will have nothing but a hand held jerky video of a room which won't tell them anything. The inspector is going to take photos of all issues in the home with a written description. That's why s/he is hired. The buyer can, with permission from the seller, take photos of the item and serial numbers of personal items being sold with the home, such as fridge, boat, ceiling fans, etc., and I consider that valuable.
If I were the seller I would not allow anyone to video my home unless it were vacant.
Buyers should understand that there is a wealth of Buyer Advisory information supplied to buyers. In AZ we have a 9 page Buyer Advisory that covers just about everything imaginable for buyers, including the advice to consult with other professionals for advice in areas not in an agents expertise. Buyers have to initial each page and sign to acknowledge receipt of all 9 pages. Buyers should read and follow the advice in the Advisory. Buyer Advisory
Below is the introductory paragraph:
Quote:
A real estate agent is vital to the purchase of real property and can provide a variety of services in locating a property, negotiating the sale, and advising the buyer. A real estate agent is generally not qualified to discover defects or evaluate the physical condition of property; however, a real estate agent can assist a buyer in finding qualified inspectors and provide the buyer with documents and other resources containing vital information about a prospective property.
This advisory is designed to make the purchase of real property as smooth as possible. Some of the more common issues that a buyer may decide to investigate or verify concerning a property purchase are summarized in this Advisory. Included in this Advisory are:
(1) common documents a buyer should review;
(2) physical conditions in the property the buyer should investigate; and
(3) conditions affecting the surrounding area that the buyer should investigate.
In addition, a buyer must communicate to the real estate agents in the transaction any special concerns the buyer may have about the property or surrounding area, whether or not those issues are addressed in this Advisory.
REMEMBER: This Advisory is supplemental to obtaining professional property inspections. Professional property inspections are absolutely essential: there is no practical substitute for a professional inspection as a measure to discover and investigate defects or shortcomings in a property.
DD period is a time for buyers to inspect and decide whether they want the home. It is also a period where repairs are negotiated. However, agreed upon repairs are not always completed during the DD period. If this was the case the DD could potentially take months which expose the seller to a big risk.
I think the OP is referring to the walk through as a process to confirm that repairs have been made. While it is certainly preferable to identify problems well in advance of closing, it is better to identify a problem an hour before closing than hour after.
Thanks but no thanks. Due diligence is not a time to decide if the buyer wants the home. The buyer "wants the home" when they sign the purchase contract. Then, the due diligence starts as part of the contract .
I am well aware of the definition of the due diligence period which is a date by which the buyer is allowed to perform due diligence. The walk through is not the time to confirm that repairs are negotiated. Once repairs are made, they should be inspected and approved by the buyer(s) before expirationof the due diligence period. The buyer does not sign off on a repair request until repairs are completed satisfactorily; funds can be held in escrow at closing or otherwise negotiated. It is incumbent upon the seller to deliver the home to the buyer according to the contract.
Due diligence periods are not the same in every state. Real estate contracts are state specific. Due diligence clauses, in NC nevertheless, have only been part of contracts for the past 3 years or so. Prior to that there was a separate form for "Repair Requests". Attorneys for the NCREC drafted a due diligence clause to be put right in the contract and is very specific in terminology and end dates.
Anything that "breaks", "is removed by seller", "damaged by seller", "damaged and covered up" by seller, after the due diligence period is signed off on IMO should be considered fraudulent, and the seller dealt with accordingly. It's deceptive and cheating, plain and simple.
The example I gave about "too late for walk thru" was a personal experience of mine because I was the buyer ! And shame on me, I was a Realtor for over 20 years; and have never had reason or considered filing a complaint against an agent, or likewise, no one ever had reason or considered filng one against me. But in this case, I will go after the agent who was a dual agent as well as go after the seller. If the carpet stains had been done before contract, it should have been in the disclosure; if done after contract, should have been disclosed and pointed out to the buyer. Then we can get into the can of worms about responsibilities of a dual agent.
Last edited by QuilterChick; 12-08-2012 at 06:41 AM..
I don't believe any of us were saying "tough luck" at all. We are trying to give you an accurate picture of reality. While it is our job to represent your interests in a transaction, we also cannot reach beyond our scope of license. Ultimately discovery of all pertinent facts is the buyer's responsibility (barring a seller's purposeful concealment of a defect). All we can really do is point you in the right direction of professionals who are licensed in a specific area, to help you.
Let me tell you about something that wasn't detected in the inspection of our home. When we bought the house we live in now, it was occupied and absolutely crammed full of the owner's possessions and not a small amount of pure junk and filth. My husband accompanied the inspector who said at the conclusion "I think you've got a pretty sound house here, but there are areas that I could not inspect because of all the stuff". Okay fine. We buy. We move in. a few years later we hired an electrician to re-do some wiring downstairs so we could add a couple of ceiling fans and outlets. He found a LIVE 220 wire stubbed out in a wall with the end exposed, just about 6 feet off the floor. He didn't stop and ask permission he said he just disconnected it as fast as he could and told us about it later! Another dangerous wiring situation was found at the dryer 220 outlet which he said, only because it was on a dedicated circuit had we not had the you-know-what shocked out of us. I may use an inspector again in the future for my own purchase but I can guarantee you that I will also hire a licensed electrician to check out the wiring! I chalked it up to the "live and learn" category. I actually use this story pretty often to illustrate the fact that (at least here where I live) even the best Home Inspector may not catch everything, and for plumbing and electrical the buyer is encouraged to have a true professional inspect those areas of a home.
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