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Most HOA's are pretty laid back and a necessity to keep neighborhood looking good...
I don't know how you know that "most" HOAs are laid back. I know that a lot of HOAs are run by wannabe dictators who will complain about the smallest of infractions (my brother's HOA is an example). I imagine that these same people would be the first to complain about government excess, but their own intrusive behavior often exceeds anything imaginable from government. Basically, HOAs are another level of government--for better or for worse. To me, they're a worst-case situation for home ownership.
So, my husband and I have been looking at houses for a while, and we found a house that we really love. It's not perfect, but being honest we won't be able to find the perfect house in our budget. The biggest downside is that it has a Home Owners Association.
I never liked the idea of an HOA, for a variety of mostly emotional reasons, but that boils down to this is my house that I am spending 200K+ on, I want some freedom.
We thought the house was nice enough to get over the HOA, but the more I think about it the less comfortable I am with an HOA. The fees are equivalent to adding $25,000 to the mortgage ($225,000 house with the HOA is the same per month as a $250,000 house without the HOA, assuming insurance and taxes are the same) and we wouldn't really use the fitness center or pool. Exterior maintenance I can't imagine being frequent enough to justify the fee. ($135 a month, can rise 3% per year)
I am also nervous about the worst case scenario. Special assessments, neighbors with an ax to grind, changing rules. I just feel like we could never be fully comfortable in our own home, always worrying that there will be an unexpected special assessment, or a neighbor may raise a stink over something and cause problems.
We have gotten the by-laws and CC&R, and I read them over (38 pages). Nothing really stood out as a major concern, and they have $400,000 in reserves, but I just can't get over an uneasy feeling.
There are a couple of articles in the CC&R that are loosely defined, such as:
- How is noxious, offensive, or unsightly defined? I am gay, can a homophobic neighbor who finds out file a complaint claiming that my relationship is unsightly? I honestly don't believe this will happen, but as a worst case scenario I fear it will always be in the back of my mind.
There are a few other points of concern, such as a 1 foot easement onto neighboring properties, the association has the right to enter homes for repairs deemed necessary, and a limit of 2 cats or dogs as pets.
This is our first home, and I don't want to give up on this house just because of the HOA, but I don't want to spend that much money on a 30 year contract if I don't feel comfortable with the HOA. This decision would be a no-brainer if there wasn't the HOA, or if we had found a similar/equally nice home without an HOA, but as it is I am just spinning my wheels.
Am I being unreasonable?
What type of home is this, detached cluster home, town home, condo?
How big is the lot?
We've owned three houses in three different states.
House #1: NOT in an HOA. It was a cape cod with a dormer, similar to others in the neighborhood. The house on one side of us was owned by an old retired couple. The house went downhill from lack of maintenance. On the other side was another cape cod but without a dormer. A young couple our age bought it. The husband decided to put a dormer on his house and boasted that he was going to build a dormer larger than anyone else's. It was a monstrosity. He went up and out and it looked like a mushroom. He built as high as the local building codes allowed, even though it was totally out of character for the neighborhood. When you turned down the street, the thing stood out like a sore thumb. But the most disturbing part: He only put one window on the side of the dormer facing our house, and he placed it at the back so it overlooked our back yard. He bragged about being able to watch us swim in our pool. We decided to move; it was that bad. Before we could, my husband was transferred out of state.
House #2: In a 56-home subdivision with an HOA. It was a new neighborhood, so the HOA was initially run by the builder. Then four of the homeowners started pressuring the builder to turn it over to the homeowners ASAP. I couldn't understand why, when things were going smoothly. The builder gave in, turned it over, and those neighbors' agenda became clear. They started harassing other owners. They took the covenants and restrictions and invented interpretations. Example: Outdoor sheds were allowed. They had to be built and painted the same color as the house (in other words, no metal or plastic). As to placement of the shed, it stated "shed must be placed to the rear of the property." In other words, in the back yard. Well, the Nazi neighbors running the show decided that really meant "draw a line from each side of the house going backwards, and the shed has to be between those imaginary lines." They started giving out violations to those of us who had already built sheds, telling us we had to move them so they'd be between those imaginary lines. We resisted. One neighbor was so intimidated, he gave in. That was it; the rest of us banded together and revolted. It was war! The Nazis surrendered, and a year later they were voted out (two were so angry, they moved away; good riddance!), and peace was restored. According to a friend who still lives there, it is still peaceful all these years later.
House #3: A large planned community with an HOA. We had one neighbor a few houses away who loved to complain to the HOA without having the decency to talk to her neighbors first. Example: We put in a pool. The pool equipment is on the side of the house, and right after construction it was visible from the street. We planted bushes to hide it (which was all that was necessary according to the documents we received when we bought), but of course it would take about six months before they grew tall enough. She called the HOA and complained. The HOA sent us a document specific to our neighborhood in the planned community that said we were required to build a wall around the pool equipment and demanded we build it in X time. We had never received that document but couldn't prove it, so we built the wall. It cost $800 for the freaking thing, and six months later you couldn't even see it because the bushes had grown. The same complaining neighbor did the exact same thing to another neighbor who had a propane tank installed for her fireplace. That neighbor also had to waste money on a wall that was obscured six months later by bushes. Two years later, the complainer moved away, and all has been peaceful since.
In retrospect, I wish I had fought the HOA over building the stupid wall.
Bottom line is overall, I had a better experience living in an HOA, despite having hassles. But if I was going to buy in another HOA, I'd try to talk to the neighbors about their experience, and even meet with the people running the HOA to get a feel for things.
Single family neighborhood, "activist" hoa (read: petty dictators) took over once development reached critical mass and hoa was turned over from developer.
Made our first 2 years a nightmare, because the language in the covenants was so vague that your neighbor could report you for anything. Yes, because they didn't like your flowers.
And one of our neighbors happens to be a control-freak jerk. In a normal neighborhood, he would have no power over us. But in our HOA neighborhood where no petty neighbor complaint was deemed insignificant, it essentially meant we bought a house (and pay property taxes on it!!) to give this jerk full control over our property.
Yes, that's right, our HOA deems it can control not just your front yard, but your back yard (and what you plant in it!) as well.
After two years of awfulness, some more rational people were voted in. Great, and I will say the last 2.5 years have been relatively peaceful, but of course I am aware that we are always one vote away from the terror restarting.
No, I would never buy in an HOA again.
By all accounts there are plenty of sane HOAs out there, but, I always wonder if they too are just one vote away from crazy.
Before working in Real Estate for 3 years now, I wouldn't buy a house in an HOA and now I definitely wouldn't. I have to process HOA statements for payment approval for the seller on the houses I close on and the ridiculous charges I see on these cracks me up. That's on top of the !$#! that run them. I'll take my chances with a neighbor who may clutter their yard or not cut their grass over some nazi run board who charges me outrageous fee's.
The exact wording is: where the aforesaid purpose was owner's responsibility for internal and structural repairs.
I do know the agency is privately run by owners in the development, there is no management company if that makes a difference.
As Marksmu says above, that is overbearing. If the "agency" is privately run by owners in the development (residents), and there is no management company, etc., that clause may not even be legal. Seems like that would be trespassing. Nevertheless, maybe Markmsu could shed more light on the legalities since he is an attorney.
How can anyone randomly guess this is "overbearing," when we have not seen the bylaws?
With the 1' deeded encroachment, and the association sitting on $400,000 in reserves, and a house in the $225,000 range, it sounds like a detached condo or zero lot line cluster home complex wherein the association will have responsibilities including the structural maintenance.
Entrance is required, not optional, to do repairs.
So, OP, what is it?
Love to see a link to the bylaws and CCRs, or a deed.
I've lived in condos with well-run stratas and found the strata fees well-priced. However, I'm aware of other stratas that have been run incompetent;y, and of course we've all heard horror stories of nosey neighbours using strata rules to punish their neighbours. With that said, I've never lived in a detached home with an HOA and, if I were buying a detached home, probably would opt for one that offered me more "freedom" in that sense.
How can anyone randomly guess this is "overbearing," when we have not seen the bylaws?
With the 1' deeded encroachment, and the association sitting on $400,000 in reserves, and a house in the $225,000 range, it sounds like a detached condo or zero lot line cluster home complex wherein the association will have responsibilities including the structural maintenance.
Entrance is required, not optional, to do repairs.
So, OP, what is it?
Love to see a link to the bylaws and CCRs, or a deed.
It is a detached single family home, two stories with a basement. No shared walls, and there is decent space between the houses. The association apparently has both attached townhomes and detached single family homes, so that may be why the wording in the CC&R is as it is, since it has to cover both detached and attached. It does specifically say that structural and interior repairs are the responsibility of the home owner, but it sounds that if the owner does not resolve the issues then the association can complete the repairs and assess a fee to the owner.
It is 38 pages, and the main purpose of making this thread was to see if I was being unreasonable in walking away from the house merely because of an HOA, but if anybody is legitimately interested in viewing the bylaws and CC&R, here is a link:
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