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Yes. Eventually he must have an Indiana probate...however it may not be timely. It is not yet clear whether an Indiana estate exists. And the matter could well be decided by a KY contract...
And there may not be any real contract at all.
Deal time...
I would put money on the contract being legit as my cursory research through Indiana case histories has shown similar contracts.
Yes, there is a Indiana estate. The farm. When I probated my late aunt's estate, I had to go to probate in 4 states to settle her real property estate issues.
What many of the posters do not take into consideration.
The REO agreement is 14 years old, and the tenants have faithfully paid all payments. It would be called a seasoned contract, and proof that the tenant was living up to their part of the contract for 14 years.
The aunt made and signed the REO agreement and was apparently happy with the agreement between them, and had gladly received the rental payments and if she had lived would have continued the agreement.
The agreement called for reevaluating the price, every 5 years. Also under Indiana REO laws,if a payment is accepted the contract is automatically extended. At the end of each 5 year period, when she accepted the payment and did not ask for the price to be changed, she was apparently in agreement that the price was still acceptable. The contract has been going on for 14 years. It appears it is another year, before the price has to be renegotiated so the price in the contract is the current value.
The OP inherited an agreement, that is apparently legal, and will control what he his sister can do no matter what they want to happen. They can't just move in and tell the tenant to move so they can sell it someone else.
The only way the contract can be foreclosed on, is if the tenant had not lived up to the contract and made the payments as agreed in the contract.
No Realtor is going to even discuss listing the property, with someone living on the property under a REO contract that has made the payments and lived up to the terms of the contract.
If he wants to try to kick them off of the property, and take it over to sell to someone else, there is going to be one heck of a battle in court, and in cases like that I have seen in the past, the OP and his sister are the ones that will lose and can be very costly to them. There is a possibility that the judge will rule against them, award the tenant their legal fees to be paid by the OP and his sister, plus a possibility of damages.
What the OP needs to do, is talk to an attorney in Indiana that is a specialist in Real Estate Law before they do anything. He needs to do this, before he goes and sees the tenant, so he will understand what he can and cannot do.
To just barge in on the tenant, and start making demands wanting to know what they intend to do, would be the most foolish move he could possibly make with all kinds of ramifications. He needs to know his and his sisters legal rights, before talking to them.
This is something I have seen people in the position of the OP, do and it has bitten them in the rear end and ended up costing them money. They may do as other people in his position have found when they go out uninvited to the property, the tenant may even call 911 and have therm charged with trespass if they do not leave when told to get off the property. The OP may not have the right to drive out to the farm and enter onto the property as it is under the control of the renter, unless he is invited onto the property or allowed under the terms of the contract agreement.
The tenant controls the farm, and the OP and his sister are the landlords, with an agreement for the tenant to pay for the farm and take ownership at some unspecified date, if they so desire. It is time to tread carefully, and get legal advice from a good real estate attorney.
I would put money on the contract being legit as my cursory research through Indiana case histories has shown similar contracts.
Yes, there is a Indiana estate. The farm. When I probated my late aunt's estate, I had to go to probate in 4 states to settle her real property estate issues.
Sorry but I do not believe you either. There appear to be no statutes and I doubt their are any applicable cases that can easily be found. You are welcome to cite a few if they come easily. I will not hold my breath.
Yes probate eventually. But after it is clear that there is some value. And the probate will do noting to deal with the ownership. In fact it may well be smart not to get an ownership hassle into probate. Probate lawyers are rather good at spinning wheels on issues not easily resolved...but at $250 on each revolution.
What many of the posters do not take into consideration.
The REO agreement is 14 years old, and the tenants have faithfully paid all payments. It would be called a seasoned contract, and proof that the tenant was living up to their part of the contract for 14 years.
The aunt made and signed the REO agreement and was apparently happy with the agreement between them, and had gladly received the rental payments and if she had lived would have continued the agreement.
The agreement called for reevaluating the price, every 5 years. Also under Indiana REO laws,if a payment is accepted the contract is automatically extended. At the end of each 5 year period, when she accepted the payment and did not ask for the price to be changed, she was apparently in agreement that the price was still acceptable. The contract has been going on for 14 years. It appears it is another year, before the price has to be renegotiated so the price in the contract is the current value.
The OP inherited an agreement, that is apparently legal, and will control what he his sister can do no matter what they want to happen. They can't just move in and tell the tenant to move so they can sell it someone else.
The only way the contract can be foreclosed on, is if the tenant had not lived up to the contract and made the payments as agreed in the contract.
No Realtor is going to even discuss listing the property, with someone living on the property under a REO contract that has made the payments and lived up to the terms of the contract.
If he wants to try to kick them off of the property, and take it over to sell to someone else, there is going to be one heck of a battle in court, and in cases like that I have seen in the past, the OP and his sister are the ones that will lose and can be very costly to them. There is a possibility that the judge will rule against them, award the tenant their legal fees to be paid by the OP and his sister, plus a possibility of damages.
What the OP needs to do, is talk to an attorney in Indiana that is a specialist in Real Estate Law before they do anything. He needs to do this, before he goes and sees the tenant, so he will understand what he can and cannot do.
To just barge in on the tenant, and start making demands wanting to know what they intend to do, would be the most foolish move he could possibly make with all kinds of ramifications. He needs to know his and his sisters legal rights, before talking to them.
This is something I have seen people in the position of the OP, do and it has bitten them in the rear end and ended up costing them money. They may do as other people in his position have found when they go out uninvited to the property, the tenant may even call 911 and have therm charged with trespass if they do not leave when told to get off the property. The OP may not have the right to drive out to the farm and enter onto the property as it is under the control of the renter, unless he is invited onto the property or allowed under the terms of the contract agreement.
The tenant controls the farm, and the OP and his sister are the landlords, with an agreement for the tenant to pay for the farm and take ownership at some unspecified date, if they so desire. It is time to tread carefully, and get legal advice from a good real estate attorney.
Virtually all nonsense and a yard wide. There are no particular regulations anyone has been able to cite on rent-to-own in Indiana. I suspect they do not exist. There appears to have been an attempt to pass some in 2008 but I cannot find any indication that succeeded.
Contracts say whatever they say subject to limitations by statute. That the contract continued after the failure to renegotiate the price is not clear. Depend on the language in the contract.
That the tenant is developing any increased interest in the property is also dependent on the language in the contract. Could be..could be not.
Both sides run huge risks if it goes to court and the practicality is that both likely lose if that happens. The lawyers end up with a piece of the property and likely no one else ends up whole.
The LLs may want to move the property to an LLC or such to limit their risk if they do have to go to court. But all interests are probably served by a deal.
One question, was the will probated in Indiana? Estates of more than $50,000 within the state must go through probate in Indiana. That would have to be done, before you can take ownership of the property encumbered by a REO agreement. Is the executor, recognized in Indiana after filing probate, and has the authority to just deed it over to you.
You had better read up on rent to own law in Indiana. The law is the--Indiana Rental Purchase Act.
Quote:
Contracts say whatever they say subject to limitations by statute. That the contract continued after the failure to renegotiate the price is not clear. Depend on the language in the contract.
The law in Indiana says, that if a payment is made and accepted, the rental is continued as is. In other words, if they made the payment at the end of 5 years and neither party wanted to change the price, then when the landlord accepted the payment the contract automatically continued as is. Continuing to accept the payments year after year after the end of the 5 year terms, is proof that the landlord was in agreement the price was to continue as is.
Quote:
Both sides run huge risks if it goes to court and the practicality is that both likely lose if that happens. The lawyers end up with a piece of the property and likely no one else ends up whole.
No, both sides will not lose if it goes to court. One side will prevail. That is the reason for courts. The tenant is the one that will probably win, as they have lived under the contract by the person they made the contract with for 14 years, made all payments as agreed, and lived up to their part of the contract. Just because the OP and his sister want to get the money right now, does not mean they will prevail.
I would think at the moment he needs a general purpose lawyer in KY. A probate lawyer in Indiana. A contract lawyer in KY. A contract lawyer in IN. A RE lawyer in Indiana.
Gosh...if he holds a lawyer meeting it is going to be about $600 an hour.
The woman died in Kentucky. She had a Will. She died TESTATE which is the legal term if you died with a Will. She died owning property in Indiana with a mortgage on it, doesn't matter where the mortgage is held. There is an estate in Indiana because that is where her property is located. The attorney in the STATE where she died handles the WILL; and he works with the attorney in the state where the property is.
The OP is asking for free advice on a public forum. He can take mine to any attorney who will agree.
I would put money on the contract being legit as my cursory research through Indiana case histories has shown similar contracts.
There's one slight problem which you seem to have overlooked: you have no idea what the handwritten "contract" says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader
The REO agreement is 14 years old, and the tenants have faithfully paid all payments. It would be called a seasoned contract, and proof that the tenant was living up to their part of the contract for 14 years.
Same reply as above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader
What the OP needs to do, is talk to an attorney in Indiana that is a specialist in Real Estate Law before they do anything.
I certainly agree with you on this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocngypz
Contract for deed aka installment sale.
Yes, but again, you don't know what the contract says or IF it even meets the definition of a contract for deed (aka Land Contract). Unless the OP cares to share that information everything posted is just wild speculation.
There's one slight problem which you seem to have overlooked: you have no idea what the handwritten "contract" says.
Same reply as above.
I certainly agree with you on this point.
Yes, but again, you don't know what the contract says or IF it even meets the definition of a contract for deed (aka Land Contract). Unless the OP cares to share that information everything posted is just wild speculation.
Yep.
The OP has quoted an attorney who opined that "the contract would never hold up in court," and that attorney has seen the document.
Kibitizing without seeing it seems to be mere guessing.
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