Inspection: What's your opinion? (housing, properties, very expensive, contractors)
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I would ask the SELLER to fix everything with a licensed contractor and get a warranty for 3 years or so on the contractor's work. I would also ask them to pay for a new inspection with an inspector of your choice, and you should choose a new inspector to get a different look for potential issues.
You do not need to move into a construction site.
That type of seller probably doesn't care ... because if they did, they would not have put the home on the market in that condition. And I hope their agent apprised them of "the facts" and to expect a lowball offer.
There are more than enough conscientious sellers around, and hopefully enough inventory of homes in that area to choose from. If not now, and they are not in a major hurry to buy, they should wait until the right one comes along and not go forward on emotional attraction on a money pit. Another inspector is not the answer, why pay for another inspection! $50K is just the beginning (imo).
While we're batting around estimates, one that came up in a house I just looked at:
How much to replace knob-and-tube wiring in a 2000sq ft, 3 floor ~1920s house with plaster walls, where it looks like maybe 1/2 of the house is still using knob and tube? It's a strange mix: fairly new 150amp panel and new Romex, some BX, and some knob-tube plugged right into the new panel.
I would walk away; the house is only 10 yrs. old and is already a money pit. Way too early for a home to have that many major issues. And, be prepared for some new problem to come up at least every year. Sounds like shabby construction, and issues with grading that can cost a small fortune to fix.
This is exactly what I was going to say. If the house is suffering from these kinds of problems in only 10 years- then who knows what is around the corner? I agree that it sounds like shabby construction, but I'm no expert.
I guess I've just seen too many inspection reports, but none of these items really shock me. As silverfall said, tile showers are notorious for leaking. I'm also not surprised that a retaining wall would start to slope after 10 years... soil erodes and things settle, it happens. Also, the ejector pump, while gross, isn't a hugely expensive repair in my experience.
For me, if I wanted the house I would get formal estimates from contractors that I found through referrals or something like Angie's List and negotiate with the seller. Any buyer will find/see these items in an inspection so as long as you have a reasonable seller you should be able to come to an agreement.
That's just me though. Good luck with whatever you decide!
Thank you all so much for your opinions! I truly appreciate it. I met with our agent today and she seemed to take the "stuff happens" approach, while not at all downplaying the seriousness of the issues. She also spoke with our inspector again and he firmly believes the house itself is not affected by the retaining wall (however the concrete driveway, side entry steps and steps in retaining wall certainly are) So we agreed that these are potential deal-breakers, but that we need more info. We scheduled a general contractor to come out tomorrow and look at everything.
Like several of you mentioned, it's obvious the seller would have to have known about the shower. I mean, you can't miss it (although I admit I did, because before inspection I had not walked into that room of the basement!) What's makes it even more odd to me is that the seller had an inspection done prior to listing! Several posters asked about the general construction, and, to me, it's seems like a very well constructed house. That was one of the big appeals to us! Unfortunately i do not know how to definitively tell quality of construction, but we've looked at a lot of houses and this one felt like it was really well built. I tried to get a feel for the inspector's opinion on it, but he wasn't forthcoming (I didnt want to flat-out ask and make him feel like he should tell me what he thought I wanted to hear.)
So we'll see how these additional inspections go, and reduce our offer accordingly. If seller isn't willing to work with us on price (or if problems are found to be even worse!) we are prepared to walk. But, at this point, I don't think we're quite ready to give up on our "dream home!"
I think it is not so much what an inspection uncovers but the greater question of how the house was taken care of in the past ten years. Almost all homes in the first ten years have some issues - roof leaks, HVCA problems, settling, and some earth movement. Many owners ignor needed repairs and let things go. If the sellers accept that they need to provide funding to bring the house up to snuff there that is fine. Our son is experiencing this first hand but the house's location and "good bones" make it worth it to them.
You've already gotten some good advice on here, so I don't have much to add. When you say "ejector pump," I assume you mean a pump for a below-grade toilet. If that is the case, keep in mind that the defective pump is probably already in violation of some local health codes. I would demand that the seller fix that liability before closing.
Probably not the best strategy... AND there is regional /price point variation --
Quote:
Originally Posted by lae60
I would ask the SELLER to fix everything with a licensed contractor and get a warranty for 3 years or so on the contractor's work. I would also ask them to pay for a new inspection with an inspector of your choice, and you should choose a new inspector to get a different look for potential issues.
You do not need to move into a construction site.
While I completely agree that few people want to move into a construction the situation as described sounds like it needs some pretty intensive work to keep things from getting worse.
In my experience as, both a real estate investor, agent, and personal home seller & buyer I have never seen a situation where the "departing seller" hired the kind of contractor that would warranty their work for the next owner -- that just does not work out. Even if a paper warranty is delivered how the heck can the new buyer expect to "enforce" any provisions of a contract that they really did not directly pay for.
A much better approach is for the buyer to ask for concessions on prices from the seller so that the buyer can hire qualified contractors themselves and then get warranties directly.
Of course if the seller will not / cannot reduce the price enough to cover the likely cost of the repairs then this is house is not "perfect" -- the inspection shows it instead to be an overpriced money pit. If the seller finds someone that can afford to overlook these problems maybe they'll buy it but they'll probably regret it.
I agree that many times a shower that is not properly built will leak. It is not particularly unusual for homes even newer than 10 years old to have such a problem. Fixing it can range from just a few hundred dollars if the damage is confined to a small are or very very costly if there are issues with the water supply, drains, and supporting structure. A whole out of these things can only be known with very involved inspection -- thermal imaging cameras to trace temperature differences, fiber optic camera to fish behind walls, moisture sense to probe for water intrusion, "sonar" to verify the density of supporting beams, partial demolish to find the flaws in the original construction...
If the house was not already priced right these "repairs" could end making the investment in this property outsized and that could make it all but impossible to get your money back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chimama1
The variety of opinion has really made me curious. It makes me wonder what problems different real estate markets are used to seeing...
In your area, what would you expect to come up during inspection of a 10 yr old house? Just out of curiosity/for general knowledge.
In my market, suburban Chicago, I see a fairly wide range of property conditions. Some of the better built homes still are very much "move in ready" at 10 years old, while some of the less well constructed homes from the lower price tract builder are needing repairs of this type or worse. The worst problems tend to be in the "boom" areas -- I recall a particular builder in one such area (Gurnee) actually substituted non-dimensional lumber in floor joists after the plans were approved. This not only angered home owners and officials but created a situation that lead to squeaky floors and potentially unsafe fire conditions as these things burn-through faster than regular joists...
At the other end of the spectrum I see a handful of smaller builders that really do "over spec" everything in the homes they build and employ the kind of tradespeople that like to stay on top the "best methods & materials". Using the right kinds of techniques and products can make even relatively affordable homes outlast "luxury" homes of a few years ago. This is especially true of things like isolation membranes and water proofing for tile / bathrooms, high tech "building wrap" for walls & roofs, self-sealing ice & water shield around windows, doors and vulnerable portions of the roof, appropriate ventilation for the attic and basement / crawlspace, as well as basic but vitally important things like proper grading / landscaping to direct water away from the structure. Homes like that will hold their value for generations...
Last edited by chet everett; 04-25-2014 at 07:53 AM..
If someone is going to purchase a "fixer" or even a "semi fixer", it is almost mandatory that they have a group of contractors that they trust and who they have used before on other projects. Or at the very least get recommendations and advice from others who have been through the process.
Sometimes I think that the "remodeling" shows on HGTV make everything seem like a minor detail, fix it up, gut this, gut that, and voila ! a bright shiny new home. Not so easy, and can be very expensive. Even the experts who buy and fix up properties to resell have surprises that were unexpected on top of things that were evident. Those are very expensive propositions. Especially if someone is a first time buyer wanting to believe once they fix the items on the report, that it's clear sailing.
Buy in haste, repent in leisure. I do wish the buyers the best and hopefully it will turn all right for them.
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Another inspector is not the answer, why pay for another inspection! $50K is just the beginning (imo).
Probably not the best strategy... AND there is regional /price point variation --
