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Old 05-14-2014, 05:51 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 8,899,363 times
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Here's a website on which apparently someone took the liberty of speaking out on anything and everything about their condo complex and board members.

It's quite entertaining!!


CHARLES COURT EAST Condominiums Needham Massachusetts

Or this one, tabloid style ! This website lists individual board members by name and lists their transgressions. If this website hasn't been sued, I doubt you have anything to worry about foxboro.

http://toneranchestates.org/ Like this guys says:

"What are you gonna do, hang homeowers from a tree FOR POINTING OUT AND ADVERTISING
THE DEATH THREATS, ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, PERJURY, BIAS, HYPOCRISY, STUPIDITY, AND INTIMIDATION TACTICS OF THE HOA BOARD....?"

wow

Last edited by ellemint; 05-14-2014 at 06:19 PM..
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,816 posts, read 41,149,325 times
Reputation: 24410
The HOA can be required by law to make certain documents available to the public without losing copyright protection. They can choose how and where to make them public - and they can decide that they will post them on their own website but that they cannot be posted on websites belonging to others, and I'm pretty sure they'd win a copyright infringement suit in that case (though there are likely other ways for them to deal with that that would be quicker).

HOAs are not government entities. Publications by government entities are specifically exempted from copyright protection.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:06 PM
 
5,048 posts, read 8,436,441 times
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That was one of my points when you posted about this recently...that the manager charges for a Purchaser Disclosure Packet or whatever your community calls it. There are some states that have a property owner association act and a condo act that notes the max that can be charged for this. Perhaps your state has this.

For one thing, there are many HOAs that have their docs online for the public to view. There are many others that have them online for viewing by residents or those who can use a code, such as a perspective buyer. You might see what other HOAs are doing in your area and might even contact them with a simple question about the money involved, not necessarily mentioning the opinions of the meeting.

Another thought....we were in a HOA where the manager complained about the time involved and the expense in making up these books of docs. He himself got the front and back thicker pages and the secretary ran off the numerous other pages. Then they had to bind them. Don't know how they did that by hand with those sharp plastic curly-que things. It was time consuming and took the cost of ink and whatever copy machine parts. They talked about all the time it took out of the secretary's day standing by the copy machine.

So you might figure out all those costs...time, ink, papers thick and regular, etc. etc. Oh, and then postage if they are mailed out.

Now....as far as the manager making money, that shouldn't go to him. The money should go to the association. He's not on a salary? Or if he's a helpful resident that makes money on these packets, he can really buy paper and ink etc in such bulk that he actually can make money on the packets?

That said, the packet is also to include several other items. If your state has a POA Act or a Condo Act, you would find them in there. Things like the up to the minutes financial info, info on pending lawsuits, info on any special assessments and dues increase, etc. Those things would have to be worked on and slipped in with the docs. He could still charge the association for his time doing this if he's not on salary. And your state may have a law about the max amount, which the association could charge if it chose.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:15 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 8,899,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
The HOA can be required by law to make certain documents available to the public without losing copyright protection. They can choose how and where to make them public - and they can decide that they will post them on their own website but that they cannot be posted on websites belonging to others, and I'm pretty sure they'd win a copyright infringement suit in that case (though there are likely other ways for them to deal with that that would be quicker).

HOAs are not government entities. Publications by government entities are specifically exempted from copyright protection.
Where are you getting these ideas from?
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
12,483 posts, read 11,056,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxboro82 View Post
Ha! I don't think I would win. I'm sure they'd be able to come up with something to make a case against me... (these people are thugs, ...think "the Departed" ...Massachusetts State Police...). Off the top of my head they might make a case that I am affecting peoples' property prices somehow, affecting the association negatively somehow, something like that.
MA aside, if you build an unauthorized web site and somehow it affects my property value in a negative way, I can assure you I would rally others and mount a legal offensive attack on you.

Are you trying to win a battle (build a web site) and lose the war like end up hurting property values including your own?
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
12,483 posts, read 11,056,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxboro82 View Post
Some of you were kind enough to give me some ideas about doing a closed informational condo website without board approval.

So at our meeting tonight, the Board members voted on adoption of this:
http://www.caionline.org/info/help/a...mberethics.pdf

And also on adoption of this:
Profile of Effective Trustee

It was voted my the majority. I mentioned my idea of a non-board informational website and they were trying to say that I couldn't do the website and also be on the board (wouldn't be "one voice"). I said I didn't think this would supersede 2nd amendment rights. I also informed them that the website would only have information (master docs and minutes) that unit owners have access to anyhow. Is this a "different voice"?

Management had issue with the website because he said that is the way he makes some of his money (charging for docs).

And the Board said I would be taking money from him if I were to post the docs on a website.

Any ideas on how to proceed?
Those documents are BS, feel good things. Goody, goody two shoes for you. Useless.

One can not stop cheaters, they will find another way to cheat. I am by no means saying your BOD cheats but I am saying your efforts might be misaimed.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:21 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 8,899,363 times
Reputation: 4771
Quote:
Originally Posted by cully View Post
That was one of my points when you posted about this recently...that the manager charges for a Purchaser Disclosure Packet or whatever your community calls it. There are some states that have a property owner association act and a condo act that notes the max that can be charged for this. Perhaps your state has this.

For one thing, there are many HOAs that have their docs online for the public to view. There are many others that have them online for viewing by residents or those who can use a code, such as a perspective buyer. You might see what other HOAs are doing in your area and might even contact them with a simple question about the money involved, not necessarily mentioning the opinions of the meeting.

Another thought....we were in a HOA where the manager complained about the time involved and the expense in making up these books of docs. He himself got the front and back thicker pages and the secretary ran off the numerous other pages. Then they had to bind them. Don't know how they did that by hand with those sharp plastic curly-que things. It was time consuming and took the cost of ink and whatever copy machine parts. They talked about all the time it took out of the secretary's day standing by the copy machine.

So you might figure out all those costs...time, ink, papers thick and regular, etc. etc. Oh, and then postage if they are mailed out.

Now....as far as the manager making money, that shouldn't go to him. The money should go to the association. He's not on a salary? Or if he's a helpful resident that makes money on these packets, he can really buy paper and ink etc in such bulk that he actually can make money on the packets?

That said, the packet is also to include several other items. If your state has a POA Act or a Condo Act, you would find them in there. Things like the up to the minutes financial info, info on pending lawsuits, info on any special assessments and dues increase, etc. Those things would have to be worked on and slipped in with the docs. He could still charge the association for his time doing this if he's not on salary. And your state may have a law about the max amount, which the association could charge if it chose.
Wouldn't it make more sense, and save time and money for these documents to be posted on-line?

Why kill more trees and spend time binding documents that could be easily posted on-line, available for everyone to view them?
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:25 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 8,899,363 times
Reputation: 4771
Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
MA aside, if you build an unauthorized web site and somehow it affects my property value in a negative way, I can assure you I would rally others and mount a legal offensive attack on you.

Are you trying to win a battle (build a web site) and lose the war like end up hurting property values including your own?
You mean like this guy:

ToneRanchEstates.org

who states:

"It is now crystal clear that if you are a homeowner in Tone Ranch Estates and you have seen the light and DON'T actually think there is an overall benefit of trying to live in an authoritarian-controlled, privately-governed HOA managed by a for-profit, out-of-control, mismanaged "management" company and a bunch of hypocritical "volunteer" board members where you give up many of your rights and board members can sue you with highly paid HOA industry lawyers for their own benefit, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE!! You are not allowed to help with the process of managing the community, you are not allowed to ask about other homeowner issues, you are not allowed to ask for community documents as per the A.R.S., you are not allowed to provide input to the board or make any decisions about the very property you own and probably live on."

and elsewhere on the website he warns people "Don't move here!"

Maybe instead of worrying about hurting property values by exposing condo board mismanagment, the condo boards should straighten out their behavior.

On the other hand, why do you assume Foxboro would be posting negative things on his/her website?
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:34 PM
 
238 posts, read 370,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
MA aside, if you build an unauthorized web site and somehow it affects my property value in a negative way, I can assure you I would rally others and mount a legal offensive attack on you.

Are you trying to win a battle (build a web site) and lose the war like end up hurting property values including your own?
I definitely don't want to hurt property values. But I fear that if I have a site with simply links to docs (eg master deed) and summaries of the minutes, then they could spin that as hurting the association or property values somehow AND maybe rally people to sue me or just do it themselves.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,816 posts, read 41,149,325 times
Reputation: 24410
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Where are you getting these ideas from?
U.S. Copyright Office website, intellectual property attorneys on intellectual property forums I hang out on to learn (I'm not an attorney but I used to be a legal assistant so I can understand their language), research into copyright laws so that publications I've worked on don't violate them; quite a few places over the years. Where are you getting yours?
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