Did I do the right thing? (Negotiating) (feedback, recommendation, 2014)

[PhiilySue]

I'm retired, on my own, making my first home purchase in No Carolina It's important to be near my kids/grandchild, and I found a house newly renovated and being flipped. Inspection found several 'handyman' type issues leftover from the renovation ex: the bathroom door bangs into the toilet when you open it.
More important, there's a dampness issue in the crawl space. I had 2 professionals look at it during due diligence, and recommendation is to grade the gravel driveway to correct a bad slope into the foundation, and then insulate and encapsulate the crawlspace.
I decided not to back out, even with an estimate of up to 10K to fix. I asked seller for all handyman issues to fixed, and 2K credit on closing costs, which will pay for grading the driveway.
Did that make sense? I'm older and not handy at all. It's worth it to me to get these smaller issues fixed before I move in. I will be taking on the encapsulation. If they refuse anything, I'm out.
Reasonable? Thanks!

[Lovehound]

Only you can say if you did the right thing. What I see is that you wanted the house badly.

I would have put everything including the handyman and the $10K for the driveway into the BINSR, then bounce it off the seller and see what comes back. IMO there are few sellers who would just say hell no and tell you to take it or leave it. (That's what it means when they check the "NO" box in their BINSR response.)

Any reasonable buyer would negotiate all repairs (except unnecessary repairs and cosmetic issues like paint) and meet you somewhere in the middle. Maybe the middle would have ended up to be $2K. Maybe $5K. Who knows, maybe they would have ate the whole $10K and thrown in the handyman for dessert. Depends on how badly they want to sell and how long the house has been on the market.

In my opinion if the dampness issue is serious and the estimate to premeditate it is reasonable I would expect to get most or all of it taken care of by the seller.

I think you should have asked for the whole thing and then negotiated from there. That is based upon the assumption that the repairs are necessary.

And there is one thing you may have considered. If you are not paying cash there will be an appraisal, and if the appraiser has the inspection report or notices the issue himself he may well deduct that amount from the appraisal, and then you'll be stuck with either making up the difference with a larger down payment or asking for a seller credit for same.

I hope for your sake it ends up requiring a seller credit to fix it before the sale goes trough. If that's how it plays out then consider yourself fortunate.

[BirdieBelle]

I think you did pretty well. Fix the issues that you will have to live with every day.

The crawl space issue is different. As a seller, I would not have agreed to regrade the driveway and encapsulated the crawlspace. In my opinion, encapsulation is overkill. Crawlspaces are typically damp. If there is water standing there, that would be a different issue.

Have you already had your inspection? Have him go over the remodeling with a fine-toothed comb, especially the electrical and plumbing. Check the downspouts and gutters. Once you buy it, have a few crawl space companies check it out and give you quotes. You will find that there are two different crawlspace camps out there on opposite ends of the spectrum: one who thinks it should be sealed and one who thinks it should breathe.

Keep in mind that you are buying a used house. The seller is not obligated to give it to you in perfect condition. If you feel like it is in good shape for a fair price, buy it.

[PhiilySue]

I was afraid of that- should have just dumped everything into the BINSR. The appraisal came back at exactly what I bid for it, which is $6K less than a reduced listing and $12K off original listing.
I do want the house because it was the only house in the kids' neighborhood in my price range. I'm renting now 25 min away.
I always say that if I live ling enough, like 2 or 3 hundred years, I may learn something about the world.

[PhiilySue]

Thank you, Wmsn4Life, good feedback also. :-) appreciate the perspective.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by PhiilySue

I was afraid of that- should have just dumped everything into the BINSR. The appraisal came back at exactly what I bid for it, which is $6K less than a reduced listing and $12K off original listing.
I do want the house because it was the only house in the kids' neighborhood in my price range. I'm renting now 25 min away.
I always say that if I live ling enough, like 2 or 3 hundred years, I may learn something about the world.

Appraisals almost always come in at exactly the sale price. Appraisals are not for the buyer, they are for the lender. If you wanted an honest appraisal you wouldn't tell the appraiser what the contract price is. Appraisals are the lender's way of CYA. They don't want the buyer to come back and say "I got screwed."

I hope you won't take exception to my earlier post. I'm coming down off a real estate buying high. I've been a very aggressive buyer and in most cases I've gotten everything I wanted. The only thing I haven't gotten were those that I didn't expect to get. I toss it in the BINSR anyway. Your BINSR is just another negotiation after the negotiation of the original contract. I haven't had it but there is always the possibility of another negotiation after the appraisal.

The original listing price and reduced price are irrelevant. The only relevant price is the sale price. The other prices were merely wishes.

I think at best you might have gotten $5K knocked off the sale price. You're getting what you want, to live near your kids. I see that as well worth $5K if it makes you happy. Knowing what I know now I think you made a great deal, particularly if you love the house.

Hey, look at me! I paid $40K over asking price because I knew this was the house for me, because this time last year the L.A. housing market was CRAZY!!! Houses were selling from the MLS listings before they were even available for showing. The successful buyer did a drive-by and made their offer before seeing the inside of the house. Curb appeal decision! DOM was often 2-3 days then. It wasn't unusual to get cut out of the deal before the first day of showing and this is the absolute truth!

I'd been in the market for my dream home for way too long--a year and a half--and living in an RV. I knew from seeing so many houses that my house would go for at least $30K over asking. I threw in the extra $10K just to trump by competitors and short circuit the bidding war, and I won!

I probably paid a lot more than you did for my house (L.A. market) but my extra $10K was well worth killing my competitors and getting my dream house. I'm pretty sure that was $10K more than the house is worth, or about that, but it was worth it to me because my year-and-a-half search was over as was living in an RV for two years. Well worth getting out of jail!

I think you paid $5K to get what you wanted and you got it. Visit your kids and break out whatever you celebrate with. Get ready to see them often as you fix up your retirement home to be your dream!

[PhiilySue]

Lovehound, I totally appreciate your insight, no offense taken. Thanks to you and Wmsn4life, I am a lot less tense over this. I feel good that I took due diligence to the point that at least I know what I'm dealing with, as much as possible.
Now it's a matter of waiting til Tuesday for response.

[Lovehound]

You are welcome. I'm not here to please people. I'm here to share with them my dose of reality as I see it. I've done 6 deals in 2 years and for a time I think I have some insights to share as not-a-Realtor. I hope you benefited from my advice, as harsh as I may sometimes sound. I'd rather shock the hell out of somebody than lull them into placid acceptance. If you passed my reality shock test then I think you are in pretty good shape to go. I see it as my calling to turn the log over and show plain people (not Realtors) the maggots under the log.

Once you have seen the worst I have to say, have seen the maggots I see under your log, I feel I have done my job in educating you with what I've learned over 6 deals in 2 years.

It's up to you now, but you have seen the worst an amateur like me can point out in your deal. If you resolve the issues I've pointed out to your satisfaction then I'll feel that I have successfully communicated my recent knowledge to the next generation of home buyers.

That is what forums are all about. Ask your questions, get your advice, make your decisions, then pay it forward.


Just between you and me and the spider/fly on the wall, I'm sweating out my last BINSR, knowing that it's almost a quarter $mil and nobody would screw a deal like that over a broken pool heater. But still I will be nervous until I get the signed BINSR. I have my appraisal poised to launch at them the moment I receive a signed BINSR agreeing to fix the pool heater. Even better if they realize the easy way out is to pick my pool contractor/inspector who will have to pass their repairs in any case to close the deal.


I love what I've learned in the last 2 years, particularly in the last 5 months as an investor. Most people see this stuff (from what I hear) on the average every 7 years ( that's how often Americans move, last time I saw the statistic). So I may have about 30 years of experience as a non-Realtor in the 2014 market.

No sense to not pay it forward. Besides, I enjoy forums, I enjoy posting.

[PhiilySue]

Update- reached an agreement that makes both sides happy. Not ecstatic, but it works. I got all the fixes I asked for and the sellers will do the driveway grading. The crawlspace expert guy has proposed a cheaper but effective fix and my costs will be much reduced.
So glad I found this forum.

[Lovehound]

Yay!!!