Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Knob and tube is not an electrical issue -- the issue is if you want to draw more than what it can accommodate (multiple window AC, hair dryer/microwave same time, flat screen tv, etc.)
In Mass, MPIUA underwrites all insurance policies for our older buildings with knob and tube. Check in PA how your homeowners insurance is handled and the price difference.
The current owners got a mortgage - so you should be able to, as well, with the same conditions. My building has it and we've had multiple HO6 insurance policies and mortgages with our old wiring!
For me, the asbestos shingles are the bigger issue. In Mass, they're a headache to deal with.
Prices sure are cheap, but it sounds like you're trying to build more than the neighborhood can bear. Repeating what Fishbrains said above, don't upgrade a house out of its neighborhood.
If no other house is selling at 175k-200k, you will be stuck for a long long long time with that laundry list of repairs you think you need if you buy at 105k-109k.
Think like a PA buyer and not a relocated Mass buyer giddy over the super cheap prices. Remember, not everything was a bargain at Filenes Basement !!!
Good luck!
If there is a way to get the place insured I would hope the OP has a BUYER'S agent to help them understand that!
The importance of "resetting" expectations for lower priced locales cannot be over-emphasized -- odds are not only are prices lots lower in rural than PA but wages for most potential are likely lower too. If you ever need to sell and you've sunk "city slicker" money into the place don't expect "local country mice" to be able to afford it!
People from the east and west coasts seem to live in a different world. It's hard for them to fathom the lower (more reasonable?) prices which can be found in many parts of mid-America. Although I don't know what the market is like in your part of western PA, a couple things you mentioned in your post were of concern:
1) The house sold for only $47K in 2007. Granted, I don't know whether they got a particularly good deal on the house back then, and I don't know if they've made significant improvements to the house...but 2007 was generally pretty much the peak of the market. You should try to determine if there is a reason for the vast discrepancy in prices between then and now.
2) You mentioned that you have looked at "comps" and noted the range of their listing prices. You need to be looking at sale prices--not listing prices. There can be a big difference between what a house is listed at and what it ultimately sells for.
If you do decide to pursue this purchase, however, you seem to be in a very strong bargaining position, especially since it has been on the market so long. It seems entirely reasonable to ask the Seller to cover the full cost of any repairs that you seek. Just remember that any other purchaser will probably have the same hesitation about the condition of the house as you have. (And don't just accept a credit for any repairs. Make sure they are done completely before closing, if it comes to that.)
Based on what you have written, though, my overriding concern is about the competency of your agent. Is the agent a Listing Agent--or is she working exclusively for you as a Buyer's Agent? (If a B.A., you should have a written agency agreement.) If the house is one that is listed for sale by her or her brokerage, that would worry me. In any case, revisit the issue of comps and examine a number of SOLD properties. Don't hesitate to get her broker involved if she seems to be unable to produce a number of sold comparable houses.
Of course, people who are willing to walk away from a deal are usually able to negotiate the best. You need to be willing to do that if you're not satisfied with the deal. Buying a first house is usually the most difficult...but this house sounds like it has extra challenges for a first-time buyer. Good luck.
Last edited by jackmichigan; 06-14-2014 at 12:46 AM..
Is the subject property being compared to homes that have been re-wired already, or do the comps have knob and tube, so that knob and tube is already considered in closed comps and no adjustment or repair cost is warranted?
We have had a couple of knob and tube houses. And not long ago at all. The houses were older of course but they were inspected, approved and insured in current time. The wiring was not frayed. One time a buyer's agent said they could not get insurance and they wanted a big drop in price. We gave them the name of our insurance agent. No problem insuring the house. Can't remember if they bought it but someone did. All houses still in tact.
Why does the remaining knob and tube need replacing? Is it frayed or in bad condition? Sparking? Evidence of old fire? Or is it just that it's an old system?
We have some knob and tube left in our 1920 farmhouse, and were told it does NOT need to be replaced unless it's causing an issue.
Almost 100 years old and that knob and tube wiring has not caused a single problem in all of these years!
I am an electrician and yes, I have seen some K/T wiring still in good shape. But many insurance companies are now refusing coverage on K/T wired homes. I replaced some and had to write a statement that it had been replaced, whether any portions remained and why. Example would be a wall accessible only by tearing into the wall and doing a lot of damage.
Most of this wiring was well installed by good craftsmen. They have all my respect and then some.
House will be a wreck after the wiring is replaced and like others said more issues will be found. Do you have the ambition to live through this remodel? And somewhere to stay while its being done? It might need to be gutted. Rural people with houses on the market for years just wait for city slickers to see it and fall in love only to find out later all the work it needs.
I kinda think the biggest problem here is your agent. My advice to you is let the house go, find an experienced, respected agent who can guide you through this process and start your search over again.
You need to sign that dotted line with confidence and not with nagging uncertainty.
I have done K&T replacement projects. It's not as intimidating as it sounds, but you can't be shy. Start with the service entrance panel and bring it up to modern standards. Then wire the house like a modern house. That means many more circuits and outlets than were originally planned.
Your walls are going to be lath and plaster. Don't try to remove all the lath and plaster. If the electrician can't fish the wire, cut channels in the walls, screw in some backing and install drywall over it. Pray for a good crawl space, or good attic access, which can be a great place to run wiring and access the wall cavities. . Also look at the ceilings. Many older houses originally had 10' ceilings, which have been lowered. That might give you space to run wiring and duct work. The furnace is a retrofit, so take a look at where they ran the furnace ducts.
The kitchen will be your biggest headache, because of the cabinets. Hopefully, it has already been rewired as part of a previous kitchen remodel.
This isn't going to be cheap. It could add as much as 50% to your stated purchase price. On the up side, you get entirely new interior finish with no plaster cracks.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
!!!
