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Oh yes they do! The solution is to get active in the community, attend Board meetings, and campaign for a Board position. In the process of doing that find other owners similarly frustrated and have them run for the Board.
Hmmm. Yet homeowners don't have a right to vote or run for office in your state. Even if homeowners had a right to vote or run for office, your solution isn't a solution until there is a change in control of the board which can take years. Little solace to all the homeowners affected in the meantime and no solution for the individual aggrieved homeowner. The problem is the existence of the HOA corporation, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts
To be a HOA Board member is often thankless and always unpaid.
Well it isn't always unpaid considering the amount of embezzlement that takes place in HOAs across the country. Despite the "thankless" remark there are countless individuals that seek out these offices and who derive pleasure from threatening others with harm, actually harming others, and having other "neighbors" come groveling to them for "permission". In short the compensation is sometimes money and always ego.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts
They often delegate the work of running the association to property managers. The HOA should set policy and act within your governing documents.
Industry vendors often usurp control of the HOA corporation. They have trade group meetings with new schemes on how to separate homeowners and the client HOAs from ever more money. With respect to your second sentence here, too many sheeple believe that as long as they are "following rules" it doesn't really matter what the rule says. Much of what the management company and HOA attorney do is to convince the board to adopt resolutions, rules, etc. beneficial to the management company and HOA attorney.
On a related note, there is no remedy other than filing suit when the HOA corporation board and vendors don't act within governing documents regardless of the substance of the documents.
Obviously a condominium is not for you. HOA members do have the right to run for HOA offices and vote in my state. What gave you the impression that they do not?
Yes, Board positions usually have staggered terms but that doesn't mean that change cannot be accomplished with planning and effort.
No one can usurp the Board unless they permit it. My issue is that often Board members do not have business or management experience. Unfortunately members with that experience are unwilling to devote the amount of time and energy it takes to be on the Board.
Yes, some run for the Board as an ego or power thing. I have a friend who is on a Board and they had just such a member. He got other owners together and planned a cabal. It worked.
A HOA is a small governing entity. Those who complain but don't bother to get involved deserve the result IMHO.
Don't fall for it, "he" will come back chanting about how HOA management companies have a nationwide conspiracy to usurp and embezzle all money, yet you shouldn't volunteer for an HOA board of director's because it is pointless.
"He" should also add a disclaimer that he makes his living off lawsuits.
I've been on both sides - actively seeking and successfully disbanding an HOA, to currently serving on the Board of Directors.
When one moves into a neighborhood subject to an HOA, you get the documents the spell out the rules for living in that property. We can't determine if the OP's HOA is operating legally, nor should we even attempt to. If the documents are that vague, it falls under buyer beware and the OP can try to reverse what they don't like, but very rarely are such protests successful. Part of the reason for the failure is the lack of knowledgeable attorneys when it comes to HOA law.
My observations include noticing no one gives a rat's patooty about their HOA rules until the HOA comes to the homeowner and asks them to comply with the rules. The owner then takes the stance, "my home, my rules." Only they forgot they agreed to the HOA rules when they purchased the home. It's irrelevant that it was a different Board of Directors or that fines were not in place. If they have decided to initiate fines, it tells me the BOD is at the end of their rope to get each and every homeowner to pull their own weight when it comes to the rules. And these rules are in place to maintain property values. When fines are actually placed, it tells me it is a neighborhood declining in value. There is the arrogant power-trip board and that particular animal is best dealt with by beating them at their own game: attend meetings, ask questions, demand answers, and run for office to challenge them. (That was the HOA we had dissolved).
As I said before, we can't determine if the fining is legal. But I will share this: EVERY property management group takes on a new HOA ONLY after a thorough review of the HOA docs. (I have seen HOA docs that require homeowner self-management, as in no professional management). I am willing to bet a set of PM lawyers have fully reviewed the documents. I have never heard of an HOA fining without a warning. And I am almost certain they are not fining without a reason. What exactly is it that homeowners don't want to do, how exactly are these fines being incurred?
If only you and your angry neighbors would put the same energy into working on your board - surely several committees exist - think about what you could accomplish. As for my neighborhood, unfortunately, we are heading down the same path, we do have the power to fine, are self-managed, but our requests are falling on deaf ears. One property has gutters hanging off the house, while another's bushes are so overgrown, they block their neighbor's access to their own front door. I was drafted to serve, we still have two open spots on our BOD. Some meetings we can't even reach a quorum and our evening is wasted. I had no desire to do this job, but I really do feel the work is to improve our neighborhood. Isn't just possible the OP's BOD is doing the same? What are the fines for that has everyone up in arms? Are they for something not included in the HOA docs?
I'd like to add the idea of once burned twice shy.
Our last board never reached a balance of egomaniac spendthrifts and those genuinely concerned with the community.
The officers terms were staggered for one thing. And, truly, there were those on the board who went door to door to get signatures for any new board members who would best keep their secrets. Only the little that came to light over time did not bode well. There were board members who never paid dues for decades. Board members who got free lawn and shrub care...which the good guys were offered and refused. Board members...and long term I might add...who brought in children or grandchildren of old friends to pay full time for part time work, during which one did child care as well in the office.
When the good guys tried to help the community, the president said there were rules in Roberts rules he would enforce. He established a committee...a fair person was one of those on it. And the president was head of the committee. He said that 1100 page book would be read and reduced to one page for the purposes of board member behavior. I was at this meeting, as most of the other meetings, and knew the people on the committee and knew it would take months to accomplish this. However, at the committee meeting a couple of weeks later, the committee was presented with an already written up page of rules. And the others were fine with it except for the fair person. The others signed that this was fine without even reading. The fair person objected. The rules were mainly that anything discussed as a board meeting would not be told to residents...not just talking about problems that would be discussed in exec sessions...but board members were not to tell people simple things like fees were going up next month or there was talk about keeping the pool open longer.
This is the group whose president began to discuss a vote that had occurred. When asked by two residents when this happened as they were not told, the president said oh, we didn't tell you because we knew you'd vote against us.
This is a group that refused to show the secretary the ballots....the secretary at that time being completely honorable. Even after the election...they suddenly disappeared they said.
This is a group that did risky unpermitted work. And sold hoa land without notice. And so much more...and that's only the things I know about.
This group did not like residents knowing things. They are now redoing the bylaws. I wonder if I'll hear that the bylaws say meetings are now closed...or, rather, there are no "monthly meetings" ...just annual meetings.
So now perfectly honorable and fair minded residents say when they move they will never have an hoa board again.
I have mentioned before that we have been part of about 12 hoas before this. But one bad apple....too much of a risk in the future.
New HOA laws were passed in the lege's 2011 session. And we don't need more movement in that direction, because all it did for HOAs that are run well is make it more cumbersome to operate. The OP's HOA sounds like it is not well-run, if its board is meeting in secret. Someone needs to remind its board of the existing laws.
The Board was reminded that fines imposed by the Board are not authorized per the CC&Rs (however "judicial" fines are authorized in the CC&Rs---so the HOA can sue a homeowner in court and ask the judge to impose fines up to 200.00 per day per violation.)
The Board is just going ahead with fines. And without asking or telling any residents, or putting the information in the HOA meeting minutes, took the Bylaws and legally unauthorized R&Rs down to Bexar County and filed the docs (under the newly enacted Texas code, HOA governing documents must be filed to be enforced.)
Incidentally, during all these changes the Board hired the largest Community Association Institute (CAI) law firm in Texas. As you probably know, the CAI is the trade organization which represents HOA attorneys and management companies. (The infamous former Senator John Corona was/is a big member.) Per a study of Harris County Court records, this law firm handled around 10% of all HOA foreclosures from 1985 to 2007.
Obviously a condominium is not for you. HOA members do have the right to run for HOA offices and vote in my state. What gave you the impression that they do not?
On what basis do you [falsely] believe in such things?
Undoubtedly the restrictions or bylaws associated with your involuntary membership organization allow the board to suspect voting "privileges" (not rights) based upon its assessment of you or other members as being in "good standing". Feel free to point to any Oregon statute that ensures a right to vote in an involuntary membership corporation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts
Yes, Board positions usually have staggered terms but that doesn't mean that change cannot be accomplished with planning and effort.
Staggering is used to disenfranchise minority interests in the corporation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts
No one can usurp the Board unless they permit it. My issue is that often Board members do not have business or management experience. Unfortunately members with that experience are unwilling to devote the amount of time and energy it takes to be on the Board.
Theory only and not practice. Of course there are also the ignorant and gullible ones that sign off on things prepared by the HOA attorney or management company without realizing what they signed off on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts
Yes, some run for the Board as an ego or power thing. I have a friend who is on a Board and they had just such a member. He got other owners together and planned a cabal. It worked.
So now your friend has become the enemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell Plotts
A HOA is a small governing entity. Those who complain but don't bother to get involved deserve the result IMHO.
No it is a despotic involuntary membership corporation, not a "governing entity".
While this thread is 'churning' along at a pretty good pace, nothing has been said about what fines this 'evil HOA board' is attempting to levy. In the majority of cases, HOA fines are levied on owners who do NOT pay their HOA dues on time ... which means that the other owners must pay the difference. The vast majority of HOA Boards HAVE the ability to levy such fines (often in lieu of property liens, which is a much more expensive, time-consuming process --- that other owners must also pay for.).
In spite of many posts that suggest that HOA Boards are wicked and out-of-control, it is important to remember that they are nothing more than a group of fellow-owners who have volunteered (without pay) to help manage the business of the HOA. Voting members on or off the HOA Board is not that difficult, and does not even require HOA Board approval, IF there is enough support for the action.
Has the OP even bothered to attend HOA Board meetings and find-out what is really going-on and why?? Honestly, leading or working on an HOA Board is a difficult and often thankless job ... that is greatly complicated by folks who do nothing more than sit back and complain about everything. This is largely due to a mindset that views Condos as if they were 'hotels' --- and HOA Boards as if they were 'desk clerks.'
Don't fall for it, "he" will come back chanting about how HOA management companies have a nationwide conspiracy to usurp and embezzle all money, yet you shouldn't volunteer for an HOA board of director's because it is pointless.
"He" should also add a disclaimer that he makes his living off lawsuits.
I've been on both sides - actively seeking and successfully disbanding an HOA, to currently serving on the Board of Directors.
sounds like you ended up on the darkside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartMoney
When one moves into a neighborhood subject to an HOA, you get the documents the spell out the rules for living in that property.
This is not the case at all. What state are you in?
My observations include noticing no one gives a rat's patooty about their HOA rules until the HOA comes to the homeowner and asks them to comply with the rules. The owner then takes the stance, "my home, my rules." Only they forgot they agreed to the HOA rules when they purchased the home. It's irrelevant that it was a different Board of Directors or that fines were not in place. If they have decided to initiate fines, it tells me the BOD is at the end of their rope to get each and every homeowner to pull their own weight when it comes to the rules. And these rules are in place to maintain property values. When fines are actually placed, it tells me it is a neighborhood declining in value. There is the arrogant power-trip board and that particular animal is best dealt with by beating them at their own game: attend meetings, ask questions, demand answers, and run for office to challenge them. (That was the HOA we had dissolved).
In some states, the trade groups have lobbied for laws to prevent your dissolution from being effective. ...and you thought this was about choice? There are also plenty of cases where local government mandates continued existence of an HOA. So much for your input as a property owner.
The most ridiculous statement made above is the claim that " And these rules are in place to maintain property values." Certainly not for the owners. This is little more than a religion for true believers. No empirical evidence to support the claim.
If only you and your angry neighbors would put the same energy into working on your board - surely several committees exist - think about what you could accomplish. As for my neighborhood, unfortunately, we are heading down the same path, we do have the power to fine, are self-managed, but our requests are falling on deaf ears. One property has gutters hanging off the house, while another's bushes are so overgrown, they block their neighbor's access to their own front door. I was drafted to serve, we still have two open spots on our BOD. Some meetings we can't even reach a quorum and our evening is wasted. I had no desire to do this job, but I really do feel the work is to improve our neighborhood. Isn't just possible the OP's BOD is doing the same? What are the fines for that has everyone up in arms? Are they for something not included in the HOA docs?[/quote]
"Fining" is a police power exercised by the state. Your organization is a private one, and is not a government nor any arm of government.
What makes you think threatening fellow owners "improves your neighborhood"?
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