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In a perfect world. By law in my state we have to have one meeting a year. We have to issue financials once a year.
Yes we have an annual meeting with a quorum, yes minutes of meeting are sent out and once a year we send out published financials.
In between if necessary we send out a notification of something.
Most states do not require a reserve study. We don't do newsletters.
If someone sells a unit they pay a $300 doc fee and condo mgt company prepares an outstanding arrears report for unit, completes right of first refusal doc and provides latest published financials as well as original offering plan and by-laws.
Right now Obviously I have not completed 2014 financials and I have not filed my 2014 tax return. Pretty much by Spring/Summer 2015 we will get YE 2014 financials out.
Condos a bit of an issue is you have to have faith. Buy a condo today and closing is in March 2015 in my building you are relying on December 2013 financials and things can change for better or worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartMoney
I've never seen a contract that does not have a HOA review period for 10 days. In this time-frame, the buyer should receive The By-Laws, Articles of Incorporation, Covenants and Restrictions, the past two budgets and the most recent reserve study. At least that is what is required in my state, PLUS, 6 months worth newsletters! (I am the HOA doc person for our community). IN ADDITION: The community manager or Board of Directors should have advised you if there were any delinquencies on your unit, as well as, any infractions of not abiding by the Architectural Control Committee. Now, when I get a request, I send a form out that requires the Realtor or seller to provide me with the new owner's information, the title company handling the transaction, AND, the closing date. The title company should contact the HOA for dues to be collected at closing. At that time, we reinspect the property if 30 days have passed from the first inspection, or we inspect for corrections. Had the initial contact been before any dues increase, but before your loan closing, it surely should have been picked up. However, is it an enforceable action? You could have approved the condo docs and they still can increase the dues. There's not much that can be done about that.
What I am curious about - what instructions did the title company get from the HOA and did they close the loan without those instructions. I can see where they may have to eat the difference for the month you closed in, but not for future dues. That's like trying to hold someone accountable for a tax increase.
Your state's website should have the HOA requirements spelled out. It may take a few calls, but I'm certain it's there.
Smartmoney, in my state (NC) its a buyer beware state, aka we aren't required to provide or disclose anything to a new owner. I do occasionally get the owner that asks for the financials, I've had ONE in my 9 years of working for an HOA management company that's asked for the reserve study.
Now if I'd of had a dollar for the phone calls I get from new owners asking what they have to do to "join" the HOA....I'd be able to retire!
Wordsmith did you specifically ask if the fee was going to stay the same with the new budget? or did they specifically tell you that? That's the only way you could "get" anyone....
I've never seen a contract that does not have a HOA review period for 10 days. In this time-frame, the buyer should receive The By-Laws, Articles of Incorporation, Covenants and Restrictions, the past two budgets and the most recent reserve study. At least that is what is required in my state, PLUS, 6 months worth newsletters! (I am the HOA doc person for our community). IN ADDITION: The community manager or Board of Directors should have advised you if there were any delinquencies on your unit, as well as, any infractions of not abiding by the Architectural Control Committee. Now, when I get a request, I send a form out that requires the Realtor or seller to provide me with the new owner's information, the title company handling the transaction, AND, the closing date. The title company should contact the HOA for dues to be collected at closing. At that time, we reinspect the property if 30 days have passed from the first inspection, or we inspect for corrections. Had the initial contact been before any dues increase, but before your loan closing, it surely should have been picked up. However, is it an enforceable action? You could have approved the condo docs and they still can increase the dues. There's not much that can be done about that.
What I am curious about - what instructions did the title company get from the HOA and did they close the loan without those instructions. I can see where they may have to eat the difference for the month you closed in, but not for future dues. That's like trying to hold someone accountable for a tax increase.
Your state's website should have the HOA requirements spelled out. It may take a few calls, but I'm certain it's there.
Yes, per the contract, I did have the 10-day window you noted. However, I went under contract in late August, and that's when the 10-day period went into effect. The HOA fee increase was implemented in November. The docs would not have reflected the fee hike anyway.
Same in NV. The HOA packages would have included the new assessment. It would also have been in the demand provided to escrow though I don't think that escrow or the HOA would be responsible if the demand was wrong. The HOA would have a responsibility to get the proper documents to the buyer though. So it would be an HOA screw up. Seller would have a duty to disclose if he knew...tricky that.
I doubt there is much of a penalty though for the HOA failure to disclose. Here it would give you grounds to call off the transaction until it closed...but once closed it is all over with.
Interesting. While yours is not a big deal one could easily make a theoretical that is a big deal. And no real obvious redress.
Yes, per the contract, I did have the 10-day window you noted. However, I went under contract in late August, and that's when the 10-day period went into effect. The HOA fee increase was implemented in November. The docs would not have reflected the fee hike anyway.
I'm surprised if you got the meeting minutes from the association meeting that there wouldn't have at least been a little chatter/discussion about a fee hike even back in August. It's pretty rare that anything happens fast in a HOA. So, I can't imagine someone came up with the idea in November then there was a vote and it was implemented all in one meeting.
Regardless, I've seen this happen before but when I have it's been caught before closing. It's always been determined in the transactions I've been involved in that it's the seller's responsibility to disclose a change in the fee but of course that could vary from state to state. At this point, you're probably not going to get anything back from the seller unless you sue them. So, a good place to start would be to have a chat with an attorney. They can start by clearing up any questions about who is responsible.
I was just thinking the same thing as MikePRU about meeting minutes.
There are several things online articles advise buyers to look for but not all buyer look for the info on what to look for.
An excellent Realtor is a good advisor, even of things one has to look into oneself.
As is a good lawyer.
And I don't recall Wordsmith12 saying anything about something more solid from the hoa about fee increases than a verbal conversation. Something in writing could have been better but maybe they'd find a way out of that anyway.
BTW, the wooded land around my friend's house was destroyed. Lots of bare spots, none of the total privacy and peace he and his family were looking for.
So, Wordsmith12, there were not documents? No declaration or regulations or bylaws that said what max percentage the fees could go up annually? No mention of any process if this were to take place so you could check if it had already been instituted?
Did the title company/settlement company meet the period of time during which they were to check with the HOA about fees?
The report form the HOA was prior to the change was even voted on. Problem, is if the vote had just been done, the owners may not even have been notified prior to your closing. Just because the vote was in November does not mean that the owners, etc., would even have known about it at closing. This is the problem with HOAs they often do not get the notice of raise out by the time the first payment is due. In other words, the seller may not have actually had the raise notice before the time of closing.
The Realtor would not have had any way of knowing of the last minute change when the Purchase was before the raise.
The Title company looks to recorded deeds, liens, etc., and they would have not known about the future raise when they gave you the title commitment. The title insurance is for problems in the title and ability to deed the property to you. It is not about HOA fee increases after the title search, and the last minute one done before closing would not be in the official county records that effect the insurance on the title.
Your ability to collect some damages from someone due to the HOA fee increases, is about Zilch.
Please, folks having a real estate lawyer look out for your interests - it is worth every penny as the people on the food chain won't tell you anything that might cause you change your mind about their commissions. At this point, failure to disclose should be discussed with a lawyer but I would start by sending a demand letter to the salespeople to either pay the undisclosed amount or you will seek legal advice within ten days.
Your information should have come from the HOA/mgt company so they are the ones you need to get answers from. It is doubtfull that the HOA will reduce the payment in two years as it is so much fun to spend other people's money. Get on on the BOD and get involved so you can influence your own future.
HOAs only benefit BOD, Mgt., and lawyers so please read other CD threads and Google - what your HOA won't tell you. Many people have made the mistake of buying into the idea that their monthly payments will be put to good use. I think we all know that leaving any money on the table is a bad idea.
Something like this for only $840.00 per year sounds kind of ridiculous to me. I'm pretty sure it would cost at least that (maybe more) to pursue compensation. HOA fees aren't guaranteed and they often go up over time... My suggestion would be to just deal with it. If you don't like this type of thing, don't move into a home regulated by HOAs...
Note that it is likely not a fee increase. It is a reserve assessment. The only real chancer of catching it in this odd set of circumstances would have been in the demand for payment sent by the HOA to the escrow for closing. Otherwise there is no place for it to have surfaced.
A lawyer reviewing the documents in August would have had the same problem.
When we called the title company 2 days later to ask about something else, we got a bit of bad news. The HOA fee we thought we would be paying was upped $70 by the HOA the month prior. Apparently, the HOA put to a vote whether they should increase the fee to put money in reserves for roof repairs.
It's disappointing that this wasn't communicated to you. Would you not have made an offer on this condo had you known of the extra $70/month fee?
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