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We can debate forever if you have a "binding" contract.
But, reading your post makes me wonder: Do you really want to do business with these people? They sound like chiselers or Froot Loops. Future drama is almost certainly assured, if you entertain them further.
It seems they have clearly given you an out by stipulating that they do not have a binding contract.
From where I am sitting, that out looks pretty appealing.
Can you imagine repair negotiations? I'm assuming their buyer agent is the one listing their property and that can only lead to bad things based on what the OP wrote so far. Oh it would be a no brainer to pass on these people, IMO.
Ok, so we've had our house on the market for a short time. We got an offer pretty quickly (contingent, boo), we countered, they countered, and we signed. After submitting the offer back, their realtor called ours and said he "forgot" to include some closing costs in the deal. Then, he claimed that since he did not sign the deal yet that it was not executed. Is that legal?
Anyways, he submitted a new, lower offer than what was signed. We countered, and now while the buyers have accepted the financial terms, they countered adding a line asking for a guarantee that the development behind us will not touch a strip of land that they own behind our fence. Has anyone ever seen a deal where someone asks for private property owned by someone else not to be touched? I think this realtor has no clue what he's doing. He even got the dates wrong on their latest counter.
What should we do? Is this ethical/legal? I would have fired the realtor by now, but he's not mine.
Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!!
Around here, the agent is not really a party to the agreement, technically. Yes, the contract has them all over it, etc., etc., but the agreement is between the buyer and the seller. The fact that he did not sign it would have been inconsequential to the deal that was forged. So, around here, he would have been telling a flat-out lie. To be fair, most agents don't realize that this is the case, and are surprised that their signature isn't required.
Time for a come to Jesus meeting. Why in the name of all that's holy is your realtor letting this moron get away with all this? You can't guarantee the use of property that doesn't belong to you, you can't predict how municipalities may adjust zoning -- sheesh!
Can you imagine repair negotiations? I'm assuming their buyer agent is the one listing their property and that can only lead to bad things based on what the OP wrote so far. Oh it would be a no brainer to pass on these people, IMO.
"After inspection, the Buyer wants me to guarantee that the house will never get hit by lightning in the middle of an avalanche, and that it will never rain on February 29."
The agents signature, is not to make it a legal contract, but is there to say he is the agent and their office are the office that will get a commission.
Just tell him if he/she wants a commission they had better sign it, or the sale will be closed without him/her getting a commission.
The agents signature, is not to make it a legal contract, but is there to say he is the agent and their office are the office that will get a commission.
Just tell him if he/she wants a commission they had better sign it, or the sale will be closed without him/her getting a commission.
Have you seen the document?
You may be right, and probably are, but who really knows?
Froot Loops and Chiselers come up with some off the wall crapola on contracts, fer sherr.
So essentially that contract doesn't exist anywhere I'm familiar with.
Any change to a contract needs to be signed or initialed by the party making that change whether buyer or seller...and perhaps even dated as well although I know some who don't do the date on counteroffers.
The buyer's offer was contingent, which the buyer's side did tell you. The buyer wanted some closing costs paid...but he and his realtor forgot to let you know this.
But you are basically you have moved on from this deal anyway.
Now the new contract is a lower offer. It was signed.
You countered.
There is a strip of land behind your fence which is owned by a third entity (and perhaps more), which is not at all party to the contract, your property, nor to your life.
The buyer countered with your guarantee that the third entity's development would not extend to all of the land the developer owns. Essentially, that the developer you are not connected with would only develop part of their property. And that this restriction on someone else's land be accomplished by you. And that, by extension, this restriction be passed down by the developer behind you to anyone who may buy the development from the current developer.
AND that the developer let his land behind your fence lay like this at the desire of someone not connected to him....for what compensation?
If you want any further assurance the seller is nuts...you got it.
He is not a wiley haggler. He is just playing games or there's something wrong with him. And there should be a "I'm -sorry- about- this- but- as -you- know- we- have- to- present- all -offers" from the buyer's agent to your agent. Otherwise, it looks like he's completely inept or inexperiences and not being trained properly.
Time to move on. Imagine that buyer as a seller on his own home if that's his contingency. It'll be too long and crazy a ride with likely no good result.
Out of curiousity what was his deposit and any pre approval?
Ok, so we've had our house on the market for a short time. We got an offer pretty quickly (contingent, boo), we countered, they countered, and we signed. After submitting the offer back, their realtor called ours and said he "forgot" to include some closing costs in the deal. Then, he claimed that since he did not sign the deal yet that it was not executed. Is that legal?
I'm not sure if your fact pattern is correct, but once Buyer and Seller have both signed a written offer, as amended, it would normally be considered a contract. Regardless, the Buyer and the Buyer's Agent sound like characters from Looney Tunes. It probably won't be the worst thing that could happen if you fail to reach an agreement.
One question to you, though: Where was your agent in all of this?
So essentially that contract doesn't exist anywhere I'm familiar with.
Any change to a contract needs to be signed or initialed by the party making that change whether buyer or seller...and perhaps even dated as well although I know some who don't do the date on counteroffers.
The buyer's offer was contingent, which the buyer's side did tell you. The buyer wanted some closing costs paid...but he and his realtor forgot to let you know this.
But you are basically you have moved on from this deal anyway.
Now the new contract is a lower offer. It was signed.
You countered.
There is a strip of land behind your fence which is owned by a third entity (and perhaps more), which is not at all party to the contract, your property, nor to your life.
The buyer countered with your guarantee that the third entity's development would not extend to all of the land the developer owns. Essentially, that the developer you are not connected with would only develop part of their property. And that this restriction on someone else's land be accomplished by you. And that, by extension, this restriction be passed down by the developer behind you to anyone who may buy the development from the current developer.
AND that the developer let his land behind your fence lay like this at the desire of someone not connected to him....for what compensation?
If you want any further assurance the seller is nuts...you got it.
He is not a wiley haggler. He is just playing games or there's something wrong with him. And there should be a "I'm -sorry- about- this- but- as -you- know- we- have- to- present- all -offers" from the buyer's agent to your agent. Otherwise, it looks like he's completely inept or inexperiences and not being trained properly.
Time to move on. Imagine that buyer as a seller on his own home if that's his contingency. It'll be too long and crazy a ride with likely no good result.
Out of curiousity what was his deposit and any pre approval?
Somehow my first line didn't make it on here. It should be something like:
So you had an offer. It was contingent. Eventually, they were countering back and he (I'm thinking you must mean the buyer) didn't sign the contract.
Ok, so we've had our house on the market for a short time. We got an offer pretty quickly (contingent, boo), we countered, they countered, and we signed. After submitting the offer back, their realtor called ours and said he "forgot" to include some closing costs in the deal. Then, he claimed that since he did not sign the deal yet that it was not executed. Is that legal?
Anyways, he submitted a new, lower offer than what was signed. We countered, and now while the buyers have accepted the financial terms, they countered adding a line asking for a guarantee that the development behind us will not touch a strip of land that they own behind our fence. Has anyone ever seen a deal where someone asks for private property owned by someone else not to be touched? I think this realtor has no clue what he's doing. He even got the dates wrong on their latest counter.
What should we do? Is this ethical/legal? I would have fired the realtor by now, but he's not mine.
It sure seems like the original contract was signed by both parties. He made an offer - that was a signed offer, right? You countered - that was a signed counteroffer. The buyer then countered - his signature is still on the contract, right? Then you accepted and signed. You have a contract with both signatures, right?
You are a FSBO? It's helpful to have either a realtor or a lawyer helping you with the contracts, if you're unfamiliar with real estate transactions and contracts. This is heavy duty stuff.
As for the other property not touching your property or whatever, that sounds ridiculous.
You need to hire a lawyer just to review the contract and help you out. That realtor may be trying to take advantage of you, since you don't have professional assistance. You may be able to get a lawyer to review the contract for a couple of hundred dollars. Do NOT guarantee anything regarding other people's property, of course.
I also read the OP as, they countered and we signed their counter. In NC they would be under contract.
I would double check the validity of that contract. If it is valid - nothing else would matter.
And, I don't see how in the world you can guarentee that no one will EVER develop the land behind your house. You can say you don't know of any current plans, but you can't predict the future. That's just crazy.
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