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So, go back to the county recorder and ask for a copy of what was filed (if anything) as well as your deed with all attachments/recordings.
Then ask the person who filed it for an accounting of who exactly voted for it, the county may just have that information as well, I'd have to believe some kind of proof other than "trust me we voted" has to exist.
They'd have to have a list of some sort or proof that a vote was accurately taken then look into it and see if it was on the up and up. Check with some of the people who "supposedly" voted, check with all the homes in your specific area to see if they were given a chance to vote or given any notice about the proposed changes. One would think it would have to be done by registered mail.
If not then go back and ask the county recorder if they know how you can file a fraud complaint and challenge.
Thanks for the tips. The new covenants and separate signature pages are posted online at the County website. There are no No votes, only Yes votes and blanks. The signatures are dated over several months, so I do find it suspicious that the 2 people getting signatures knew which homes to pass by to avoid any No votes.
I will check with the county and ask what the procedure should have been, should we all have received the actual document to review before voting, should everyone have had a chance to vote, is there some sort of public review period once filed.
Thanks for the tips. The new covenants and separate signature pages are posted online at the County website. There are no No votes, only Yes votes and blanks. The signatures are dated over several months, so I do find it suspicious that the 2 people getting signatures knew which homes to pass by to avoid any No votes.
I will check with the county and ask what the procedure should have been, should we all have received the actual document to review before voting, should everyone have had a chance to vote, is there some sort of public review period once filed.
I'm guessing eventually you will have to retain a lawyer to get this cleaned up. I'd find one soon that is a specialist in HOA/R.E. law. Usually they'll give a hour consult for free which may enlighten you as to what can be done. I'd also suggest keeping this to yourself until you gather all the facts so you don't tip your hand before you are ready to act.
This is going to be a bit of work but if you find out your suspicions of bad conduct are correct you will see a worthwhile result of your work like these people being sanctioned for misconduct.
The problem nowadays is many don't want to put in such work even if they know what's happened is wrong, they just look the other way figuring "it doesn't cause me any harm" (right now) but will scream bloody murder about why "somebody" didn't do something about it earlier.
I'm guessing eventually you will have to retain a lawyer to get this cleaned up. I'd find one soon that is a specialist in HOA/R.E. law. Usually they'll give a hour consult for free which may enlighten you as to what can be done. I'd also suggest keeping this to yourself until you gather all the facts so you don't tip your hand before you are ready to act.
This is going to be a bit of work but if you find out your suspicions of bad conduct are correct you will see a worthwhile result of your work like these people being sanctioned for misconduct.
The problem nowadays is many don't want to put in such work even if they know what's happened is wrong, they just look the other way figuring "it doesn't cause me any harm" (right now) but will scream bloody murder about why "somebody" didn't do something about it earlier.
I would guess that all they needed was 50% of the residents to vote 'yes'. Even if the rest voted 'no' it would have not mattered. Not recording the 'no' voters is probably doing the naysayers a favor and helping to avoid an adversarial future for the residents. Now that the rules are different, if you don't like something take it to the board.
The real problem is that if you did not know the others were trying to change the rules then you did not have an opportunity to lobby for your point of view. That is what would tick me off, and what might be important legally if you seek to overturn the new rules in general.
Thanks for the tips. The new covenants and separate signature pages are posted online at the County website. There are no No votes, only Yes votes and blanks. The signatures are dated over several months, so I do find it suspicious that the 2 people getting signatures knew which homes to pass by to avoid any No votes.
I will check with the county and ask what the procedure should have been, should we all have received the actual document to review before voting, should everyone have had a chance to vote, is there some sort of public review period once filed.
While the rule may be the certain percentage majority, there may also be a rule about notification that was skirted.
If they went door to door, and if they are like some of the board members in one of my former HOAs, they just didn't record anyone who said no. Just moved on.
I'm guessing eventually you will have to retain a lawyer to get this cleaned up. I'd find one soon that is a specialist in HOA/R.E. law. Usually they'll give a hour consult for free which may enlighten you as to what can be done. I'd also suggest keeping this to yourself until you gather all the facts so you don't tip your hand before you are ready to act.
This is going to be a bit of work but if you find out your suspicions of bad conduct are correct you will see a worthwhile result of your work like these people being sanctioned for misconduct.
The problem nowadays is many don't want to put in such work even if they know what's happened is wrong, they just look the other way figuring "it doesn't cause me any harm" (right now) but will scream bloody murder about why "somebody" didn't do something about it earlier.
Sorry, Jimj, my response was meant for Kara. All the best.
Kara, ask that attorney you spoke with about something else. I don't know if this may be what happened. The developer had some sort of documents that expressed how the neighborhood would turn out when forming the neighborhood. Even though that was long ago, what generally happens is when a developer is finished and out, the administration of the docs and rules is passed to the homeowners. Even if they lanquished in some basements and woodsheds. They still exist if there were some originally.
Yes, there could be an expiration.
If they have not expired, then some wily person desirous of rules could give them new life.
And could walk around and make calls to get the required number to agree...not even fully stating just what it was he was doing...and have a whole new system going. The required number could be 51%, 75%.
I'm looking forward to hearing the outcome. If this is a HOA (which would require there being common areas to maintain) or if these are deeds of restrictions but how they would apply to just one sub-division within a community.
And how it is stated one neighbor can sue another. Sounds like a challenge. Sounds like someone wants to sue his neighbor.
Kara, ask that attorney you spoke with about something else. I don't know if this may be what happened. The developer had some sort of documents that expressed how the neighborhood would turn out when forming the neighborhood. Even though that was long ago, what generally happens is when a developer is finished and out, the administration of the docs and rules is passed to the homeowners. Even if they lanquished in some basements and woodsheds. They still exist if there were some originally.
Yes, there could be an expiration.
If they have not expired, then some wily person desirous of rules could give them new life.
And could walk around and make calls to get the required number to agree...not even fully stating just what it was he was doing...and have a whole new system going. The required number could be 51%, 75%.
I'm looking forward to hearing the outcome. If this is a HOA (which would require there being common areas to maintain) or if these are deeds of restrictions but how they would apply to just one sub-division within a community.
And how it is stated one neighbor can sue another. Sounds like a challenge. Sounds like someone wants to sue his neighbor.
Every CC&R we've lived under (and there has been many) had a line that allowed enforcement by a homeowner if the HOA refused/neglected to enforce any rule. I'm guessing this was for a couple of reasons one of them being an attempt to stop a totalitarian board from having complete power.
Every CC&R we've lived under (and there has been many) had a line that allowed enforcement by a homeowner if the HOA refused/neglected to enforce any rule. I'm guessing this was for a couple of reasons one of them being an attempt to stop a totalitarian board from having complete power.
You've got me curious about this. So a HOA neighbor could ostensibly sue the neighbor if the neighbor had shutters and door painted the wrong color or a vehicle in the driveway that was supposed to be in the garage.
I've read so many problems in HOAs on here, I wonder how common that is. It would be handy indeed...if there are commercial vehicles the hoa is doing nothing about etc.
What I've noted is more and more lately the lack of desire for the local courts to interfere in HOA government. Municipalities appear to be very content with those communities that provide and pay for their own pools, tennis courts, play areas, lakes, boating, sometimes road maintenance, sometimes private security officers, community centers (and not only in communities that are gated off and elite either) and lessen the burden on the municipality while those residents yet STILL pay taxes.
And a lot of municipalities don't want to mess with that.
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