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If you declined to sign an agency agreement with me, yet I proceeded to write the offer, in NC, I would clearly be a subagent representing the sellers' interests only.
Whether I disclosed that properly or not would determine what caliber agent I am.
Hmm. That would not be the case in Michigan. But aren't agency disclosure forms required in NC?
Looks like I stirred up some interesting real estate agency debate
I guess I was wrong by mentioning what I thought the house might be worth at the time of the initial offer because I didn't do enough research on the area. This was kind of like a home we 'fell in love with' and didn't do enough digging before placing the first offer. After the initial offer and looking at some comps I think my first offer is a reasonable price. I don't want to overpay even though we like the home so I'm willing to walk away if they don't budge. The town that the home is in is not desirable but it is in the most desirable area of that town...if that makes sense.
In this situation would removing the offer and submitting a slightly lower offer be effective or would this offend the seller?
Because they counter-offered you with a $10k increase over your offer, that already invalidates your prior offer. So you don't have the 'remove the offer'.
If I was in your shoes, I would counter at $500 over your other offer and tell your agent to tell them you reviewed the comps and that it's a fair offer and paying $10k more would be over paying and you WON'T do that.
Or you can go back at your original offer with the explanation that your agent is to take to the sellers agent (explaining why your offer is fair and explaining why the home is worth what you are offering)
Hmm. That would not be the case in Michigan. But aren't agency disclosure forms required in NC?
It is a long post, but pretty well nails it for NC:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish
More or less. The OP seems to be in New Jersey, and I would let an NJ agent tell if subagency is allowed there.
This would be a great time for Bill Keegan to weigh in...
We require a written agreement for Buyers' agency, but the crux of subagency is that there is no written agency agreement.
WWREA: http://www.ncrec.gov/Brochures/Print/WorkingWith.pdf
All an agent has to have in writing is the State-mandated agency disclosure brochure, with an X on the box indicating "...the above agent and firm will represent the SELLER..."
"Seller's Agent Working With a Buyer
If the real estate agent or firm that you contact does not offer buyer agency or you do not want them to act as your buyer agent, you can still work with the firm and its agents. However, they will be acting as the seller’s agent (or “subagent”). The agent can still help you find and purchase property and provide many of the same services as a buyer’s agent. The agent must be fair with you and provide you with any “material facts” (such as a leaky roof) about properties. But remember, the agent represents the seller—not you—and therefore must try to obtain for the seller the best possible price and terms for the seller’s property. Furthermore, a seller’s agent is required to give the seller any information about you (even personal, financial or confidential information) that would help the seller in the sale of his or her property. Agents must tell you in writing if they are sellers’ agents before you say anything that can help the seller. But until you are sure that an agent is not a seller’s agent, you should avoid saying anything you do not want a seller to know. Sellers’ agents are compensated by the sellers.
(Note: This brochure is for informational purposes only and does not constitute a contract for service.)
The North Carolina Real Estate Commission P.O. Box 17100 • Raleigh, North Carolina 27619-7100 919/875-3700 • Web Site: www.ncrec.gov REC 3.45 3/1/13 Disclosure of Seller Subagency (Complete, if applicable) ❒ When showing you property and assisting you in the purchase of a property, the above agent and firm will represent the SELLER. For more information, see “Seller’s Agent Working with a Buyer” in the brochure."
See above.
Subagency is a remnant of the time when there was no such thing as buyers' agency. All agents from all firms worked for sellers, and buyers had no legal expectation of advocacy, not even when "working with an agent." "Their" agent was representing the sellers.
Seller Subagency is not legal in some states.
I will not work in seller subagency, and will not cooperate with or compensate seller subagents on a listing.
Subagency for seller and agent is the same as hiring someone whom you have never met, not vetted, but agent and seller are accepting liability exposure if the subagent turns out to be a dirtball, violates Fair Housing, lies about property condition, etc.
Subagency is similar to hiring someone to build you a deck, and they turn the work over to a subcontractor without knowing the sub, if the sub is trained, honest, insured, capable.
Often, the subagent cannot convince the buyer to engage them in buyers' agency, is too inept or dishonest to bother to get that document, or is just cutting corners. None of those are attributes of an agent whom I want representing me or my clients.
I have read nothing here to make me believe that the agent the OP "worked with" is anything but a subagent, and ergo, I conclude that the agent did a proper job when telling her seller client what the buyer would pay.
Unfortunately, I have worked with a couple of clients who say they have previously written offers with an agent, with no agency agreement, and have never heard of WWREA.
That is an inept or dishonest agent.
Actually, she's working for herself... The more you pay, the more she makes in commission... period.
I'd be upset that she said something to the sellers agent that you told her in confidence.
I'd fire her immediately... actually, if there was no contract for her to be your buyers agent, there's no need to fire her, she's not working for you (legally) despite she worked up the offer letter.
I'd let her broker know what she did - and why you're not using them now... That'll get her into a lot of hot water with her broker, as he/she loses money if she doesn't get the commission.
You said you looked at other comps and you're not wanting to move from your bid... stay with it... don't adjust your max, it's your max... stick to your guns.
Find an agent that really IS working for you, let them know what happened with your first bid, and good luck on your home.
Because I just liked the home I saw and wasn't sure how much I liked this agent, I had just met her. Also she told me she was new in real estate only had 2 years of experience. The buyers agreement said I needed to work with her for like the next 90 days even if this deal fell through.
Since she took me to see this home I thought I was obligated to make the offer through her even though I did not like her that much.
Exactly why you should have found yourself a buyer's agent BEFORE you looked at any houses.
You used her time and energy to search for a house. Okay, sending you MLS listings is pretty minimal work, but the second you wanted to see one in person, you should have found a buyer's agent you were willing to hire.
Actually, she's working for herself... The more you pay, the more she makes in commission... period.
I'd be upset that she said something to the sellers agent that you told her in confidence.
I'd fire her immediately... actually, if there was no contract for her to be your buyers agent, there's no need to fire her, she's not working for you (legally) despite she worked up the offer letter.
I'd let her broker know what she did - and why you're not using them now... That'll get her into a lot of hot water with her broker, as he/she loses money if she doesn't get the commission.
You said you looked at other comps and you're not wanting to move from your bid... stay with it... don't adjust your max, it's your max... stick to your guns.
Find an agent that really IS working for you, let them know what happened with your first bid, and good luck on your home.
Read the thread.
It will clarify some of your misunderstandings.
ok so how do I do that in a nice way (fire her) and 2 what should I do about the home I currently have the offer on? I do like it alot but after doing more research on the comps I don't think I want to move too much from my initial offer, considering the seller now knows what I want to pay at max should I just walk away from this house?
OP are you still negotiating on this house? You can counter back at any price you like. You can counter back at $1 more than your original offer if you feel like it.
Either way I would still fire this agent & find a new one.
Before I made the offer she asked me to sign a buyers agent contract as part of the paperwork but I declined to sign it because I didnt want to be locked in to her services if something like this happened, I didn't know her well enough yet but she was the one who happened to show me this house and I really liked the house
Then she was working for the seller as an extension of the listing agent. If you had signed a buyers agent contract and were paying her, THEN she is obligated to represent you. Since you did not, she is obligated to represent the best interests of the seller. You gave her data that she could legally use to aid the seller so she was obligated to do so. Her only obligation to you at this point is to disclose any information you request and she is not legally obligated to keep confidential, or to make any disclosures the seller is obligated by law to make to you. If it is not a mandated disclosure and you dont ask, she is not under any duty to tell you.
He duty is to bring offers to the seller and as an extension of the listing agent, help the seller negotiate a contract with you. Her duty is to the seller though, NOT YOU. If you want her obligated to you then you have to pay her directly.
It is a long post, but pretty well nails it for NC:
Thanks. We don't have any subagency designations in Michigan.
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