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Yep. It's really this simple OP. Just fire her, she is looking out for herself, not your best interest.
For what it is worth, homebuyers are only looking out for their best interests, too. Otherwise more people would be more willing to pay the asking price. I mean, isn't buying a home all about what you think the property is worth, the sellers' be damned?
Mike, or Somebody: can you please explain to me what you mean by "sub agency"? It's no it a term that I've heard (remember that I'm just a consumer, not a Realtor, so keep it simple).
ok so how do I do that in a nice way (fire her) and 2 what should I do about the home I currently have the offer on? I do like it alot but after doing more research on the comps I don't think I want to move too much from my initial offer, considering the seller now knows what I want to pay at max should I just walk away from this house?
You do that "in a nice way" by not filing a complaint with the state licensing board; but I don't know why you'd want to let her off so easily.
Before I made the offer she asked me to sign a buyers agent contract as part of the paperwork but I declined to sign it because I didnt want to be locked in to her services if something like this happened, I didn't know her well enough yet but she was the one who happened to show me this house and I really liked the house
If a buyer makes an offer, or a counter offer, at a certain price and tells me that is there max price I will definitely share that info. It pushes the seller to make a decision and if it's a fair offer frequently works.
If the buyer makes an offer lower than their max and tells me their max, I have the information I need to tell the listing agent "No, I'm sure my buyer won't take that counter offer, can you get them to go any lower?" I find it difficult to negotiate for my clients if I don't know where they stand. Perhaps your agent was pushing for a lower counter offer from the seller and said, sorry that is above their max, come back at this price or forget it.
If you no longer trust your agent, find someone else to represent you.
Never, ever, reveal the maximum price your client is willing to pay. There are ways to talk around the issue without revealing the maximum price your client is willing to pay.
The only price the seller should know the buyer is willing to pay is what is on the offered contract. In most places you must have permission in writing to tell the listing agent that your buyer won't accept a certain price. A nuanced response is something like "I don't believe such a counter will be favorably received" which gives the seller the option to adjust their counter offer while you slowly present to your buyer the offer they're likely to counter back. All offers must be presented unless the buyer has given you absolute negotiating power (absent signature authority of course).
I agree with the others that the lack of a buyer's representation agreement may have put the buyer's agent into a sub-agency role, thereby requiring him or her to disclose to the seller the max price the buyer was willing to pay. If sub-agency was not at play, it certainly is not what I would have done.
If a buyer makes an offer, or a counter offer, at a certain price and tells me that is there max price I will definitely share that info. It pushes the seller to make a decision and if it's a fair offer frequently works.
If the buyer makes an offer lower than their max and tells me their max, I have the information I need to tell the listing agent "No, I'm sure my buyer won't take that counter offer, can you get them to go any lower?" I find it difficult to negotiate for my clients if I don't know where they stand. Perhaps your agent was pushing for a lower counter offer from the seller and said, sorry that is above their max, come back at this price or forget it.
If you no longer trust your agent, find someone else to represent you.
Thank you for some sanity within the lynch mob. Negotiations take many forms. I never trust that a max price a buyer has told me is their max. Even if I suspect they may go higher (very often the case), telling the other agent that they won't go over a certain number may have value at some stage of some negotiations. I am working for the buyer and if I can use the so-called max price as a tool to get the property after all else has failed I will use it when appropriate. I will work hard to get a lower number but that ain't always possible. Unless the buyer here was present during the negotiations, he has no idea in what context this was used or whether it was inappropriately or strategically disclosed.
But had the OP signed that contract with the agent that wrote the offer, the she would be in breach of confidentiality. What I am saying (and Mike), by not signing and getting locked in with that agent that wrote the contract (even if only for 72 hours), she worked for the seller and had to share what she knew about the OP's intentions.
More or less. The OP seems to be in New Jersey, and I would let an NJ agent tell if subagency is allowed there.
This would be a great time for Bill Keegan to weigh in...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall
But NC requires a signed agreement for agency, right? That way it is clear upfront that the agent is a sub-agent?
We don't have sub-agency so I'm not sure of what the disclosure requirements are, or if implied buyer agency is the default if nothing is discussed.
We require a written agreement for Buyers' agency, but the crux of subagency is that there is no written agency agreement.
WWREA: http://www.ncrec.gov/Brochures/Print/WorkingWith.pdf
All an agent has to have in writing is the State-mandated agency disclosure brochure, with an X on the box indicating "...the above agent and firm will represent the SELLER..."
"Seller's Agent Working With a Buyer
If the real estate agent or firm that you contact does not offer buyer agency or you do not want them to act as your buyer agent, you can still work with the firm and its agents. However, they will be acting as the seller’s agent (or “subagent”). The agent can still help you find and purchase property and provide many of the same services as a buyer’s agent. The agent must be fair with you and provide you with any “material facts” (such as a leaky roof) about properties. But remember, the agent represents the seller—not you—and therefore must try to obtain for the seller the best possible price and terms for the seller’s property. Furthermore, a seller’s agent is required to give the seller any information about you (even personal, financial or confidential information) that would help the seller in the sale of his or her property. Agents must tell you in writing if they are sellers’ agents before you say anything that can help the seller. But until you are sure that an agent is not a seller’s agent, you should avoid saying anything you do not want a seller to know. Sellers’ agents are compensated by the sellers.
(Note: This brochure is for informational purposes only and does not constitute a contract for service.)
The North Carolina Real Estate Commission P.O. Box 17100 • Raleigh, North Carolina 27619-7100 919/875-3700 • Web Site: www.ncrec.gov REC 3.45 3/1/13 Disclosure of Seller Subagency (Complete, if applicable) ❒ When showing you property and assisting you in the purchase of a property, the above agent and firm will represent the SELLER. For more information, see “Seller’s Agent Working with a Buyer” in the brochure."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkgourmet
Mike, or Somebody: can you please explain to me what you mean by "sub agency"? It's no it a term that I've heard (remember that I'm just a consumer, not a Realtor, so keep it simple).
Thanks.
See above.
Subagency is a remnant of the time when there was no such thing as buyers' agency. All agents from all firms worked for sellers, and buyers had no legal expectation of advocacy, not even when "working with an agent." "Their" agent was representing the sellers.
Seller Subagency is not legal in some states.
I will not work in seller subagency, and will not cooperate with or compensate seller subagents on a listing.
Subagency for seller and agent is the same as hiring someone whom you have never met, not vetted, but agent and seller are accepting liability exposure if the subagent turns out to be a dirtball, violates Fair Housing, lies about property condition, etc.
Subagency is similar to hiring someone to build you a deck, and they turn the work over to a subcontractor without knowing the sub, if the sub is trained, honest, insured, capable.
Often, the subagent cannot convince the buyer to engage them in buyers' agency, is too inept or dishonest to bother to get that document, or is just cutting corners. None of those are attributes of an agent whom I want representing me or my clients.
I have read nothing here to make me believe that the agent the OP "worked with" is anything but a subagent, and ergo, I conclude that the agent did a proper job when telling her seller client what the buyer would pay.
Unfortunately, I have worked with a couple of clients who say they have previously written offers with an agent, with no agency agreement, and have never heard of WWREA.
That is an inept or dishonest agent.
Last edited by MikeJaquish; 05-07-2015 at 04:57 AM..
Mike, or Somebody: can you please explain to me what you mean by "sub agency"? It's no it a term that I've heard (remember that I'm just a consumer, not a Realtor, so keep it simple).
Thanks.
Nor am I a Realtor, but I've seen this many times over. Those that are saying "off with her head" need to understand, in some (many) states, since the seller pays both agents' commissions, both agents have a fiduciary responsibility to the seller to disclose everything they know about the offer being presented, including the buyer's maximum price (unless the agent has a buyer's agent contract, which is presented with the offer). I assume since the agent tried to get the buyer to sign a buyer's agent agreement, so it was clear the agent represented the buyer, the agent attempted to explain the situation to her. (Why else bring out the agreement)? It's likely all the OP saw was an agent handing her an agreement to represent her that was locking her in to use only that agent, not understanding that if she didn't sign, the agent worked for the seller.
There is every possibility the agent that wrote the buyer's offer was correct in her actions and was ethically correct in her actions. Everyone saying dump her needs to understand her actions could have been by the book.
Nor am I a Realtor, but I've seen this many times over. Those that are saying "off with her head" need to understand, in some (many) states, since the seller pays both agents' commissions, both agents have a fiduciary responsibility to the seller to disclose everything they know about the offer being presented, including the buyer's maximum price (unless the agent has a buyer's agent contract, which is presented with the offer). I assume since the agent tried to get the buyer to sign a buyer's agent agreement, so it was clear the agent represented the buyer, the agent attempted to explain the situation to her. (Why else bring out the agreement)? It's likely all the OP saw was an agent handing her an agreement to represent her that was locking her in to use only that agent, not understanding that if she didn't sign, the agent worked for the seller.
There is every possibility the agent that wrote the buyer's offer was correct in her actions and was ethically correct in her actions. Everyone saying dump her needs to understand her actions could have been by the book.
What kind of horse manure is this?
If I make an offer to buy a property, I have every reasonable expectation that the agent through whom I present the offer A) wants to close the deal, and B) is working on my behalf.
Sure, go ahead and spill the beans to the seller, and ensure that A) the deal will never get done, and B) if there was any chance that I might engage you as my realtor, you just blew it.
A little common sense here, folks. Ethical? I don't think so.
If I make an offer to buy a property, I have every reasonable expectation that the agent through whom I present the offer A) wants to close the deal, and B) is working on my behalf.
Sure, go ahead and spill the beans to the seller, and ensure that A) the deal will never get done, and B) if there was any chance that I might engage you as my realtor, you just blew it.
A little common sense here, folks. Ethical? I don't think so.
Within the context of the thread, this is abject cluelessness, and misleading to anyone reading who wishes to understand the role of the agent in a real estate transaction.
The law trumps personal misunderstanding and grunting and groaning about ethics. That is not state-specific.
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