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I have a question here. I know next to nothing about HOAs, so here is my question: What would happen if a person bought a home in an area that had a HOA,but refused to sign any type of agreement with them? I mean, they would own the home, so how could anyone force them to sign an agreement they did not agree with? Thank you in advance for any replys.
Agreement comes before owning the home, not after. At closing you have to sign an agreement indictating you have read and understand all the HOA CCRs and agree to abide by them. Refuse to sign that agreement and you can't close on your house...the sale does not go through.
The only time you can chose to not be in an HOA is when the HOA is forming in an older neighborhood and you already own the house.
Buying into an established HOA neighborhood means buying into the HOA, and abiding by its rules. No option.
And if you're like me (stubborn and independent) why would you buy into an HOA?
Hey -- people love HOAs. People, as you can see here, will fight about them and how they are better for the neighborhood, or how much they are horrible and picky and whatever.... but pretty much EVERYWHERE you don't have to buy into an HOA neighborhood. You can find homes -- nice homes in nice neighborhoods that do not have HOAs.
People are either pro HOA or against HOA, and for each person there is a home for them. I do not understand moving into HOA and then have antagonistic relationship with it -- what's the point of making yourself miserable? But -- I have seen it a number of times. Rules are rules -- but not for them. Oh -- I know the rules are I have to have white window coverings facing the window... but mine are pink... or gold... or blue...... I don't get it why "I" can't have what "I" want.... there are easy solutions, but they'd rather get letters and fined and hassled... which by the way is a hassle and expense for the HOA, and the property manager.
The past few years at this job have made it very clear to me we will never live in an HOA... but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. It means there should be choices... and luckily there ARE.
The only time you can chose to not be in an HOA is when the HOA is forming in an older neighborhood and you already own the house.
Buying into an established HOA neighborhood means buying into the HOA, and abiding by its rules. No option.
And if you're like me (stubborn and independent) why would you buy into an HOA?
Hey -- people love HOAs. People, as you can see here, will fight about them and how they are better for the neighborhood, or how much they are horrible and picky and whatever.... but pretty much EVERYWHERE you don't have to buy into an HOA neighborhood. You can find homes -- nice homes in nice neighborhoods that do not have HOAs.
People are either pro HOA or against HOA, and for each person there is a home for them. I do not understand moving into HOA and then have antagonistic relationship with it -- what's the point of making yourself miserable? But -- I have seen it a number of times. Rules are rules -- but not for them. Oh -- I know the rules are I have to have white window coverings facing the window... but mine are pink... or gold... or blue...... I don't get it why "I" can't have what "I" want.... there are easy solutions, but they'd rather get letters and fined and hassled... which by the way is a hassle and expense for the HOA, and the property manager.
The past few years at this job have made it very clear to me we will never live in an HOA... but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. It means there should be choices... and luckily there ARE.
OMG, a voice of reason on the City Data forums! *faints from sheer astonishment*
THANK YOU for posting this! You're so very, very right.
Pretty much everyone has to make compromises when it comes to buying a house. HOA versus no HOA is just one of them. Rare is the person who finds the perfect house, in perfect condition, in the perfect location, surrounded by perfect neighbors, at an affordable price. All the rest of us are stuck picking between various imperfect options.
I've been defending HOAs here, but I'm actually neutral on them. I didn't by my house because it was in an HOA, I bought it because it met all my other desires; the HOA just came along for the ride. But I knew that giving up the freedom to do anything I wanted with my property was a part of the deal. If I hadn't been OK with the HOA restrictions, I would have bought a house in a different neighborhood without an HOA. And the odds are that would have worked out fine, too.
"And if you're like me (stubborn and independent) why would you buy into an HOA?"
Because there isn't much else oceanfront in certain areas... They're not making anymore shoreline!
Ya know, I'm not so sure you're right about that. In condo's, yes, you are correct. But SFR? Have a look at the canal front homes in Cape Coral, Florida. MOST of the SFR's there are not in an HOA. (and in many of the less expensive areas, it shows.)
So if you do that and you want to sell do the new owners have to belong to the HOA?
I'm making a guess, but it's an educated guess from my time in mortgages and notes. I would say NO. Here's why.
Practically every neighborhood every where was at it's beginning a development. A tract of land was purchased by a developer, who divided it and built each home and sold it. There were conditions on the land, some of which are unenforceable today. For instance, it's not uncommon to have race restrictions on deeds, but they are unenforceable because of todays laws. Sort of like old legal verbiage that is superceded by todays laws. But to rewrite all these deeds is more trouble than it's worth, because the basics of the deed (plot of land, surveyor's marks, yada yada) is what's important, along with the ownership of the land.
I would think that by instituting an HOA, new deeds would be drawn up, because an HOA usually takes ownership of the streets, curbs, verges and other areas that would be considered "common" to the HOA, and the survey lines might be redrawn, as in -- you would lose a little land, but gain an HOA.
SO -- if you didn't join the HOA, you wouldn't be covered under the HOA, and unless they made some sort of provisions that when you sell that piece of property becomes part of the HOA (which I would think would cost them money to do this, because if someone pulled this on me they would be paying me lots for this) that your deed would remain unrestricted and therefore not part of the HOA in perpetuity.
Have you ever witnessed someone next door to you develop an obsession in collecting cars, junk cars, several cars at once, a junk boat or two? To witness those vehicles deteriorate over time? Witness the obsessed remove motors in their front lawns and just drop the motor on the spot? Change their oil in the street, dumping oil in the gutters? I have. I've seen folks haul a single wide trailer onto their property right next to other homes and plop it down and fill it up with people. Have you ever witnessed someone build a huge chicken coup in their yard? It only takes one nut to screw the bunch.
Well, they don't call trailerparks "trailerparks" for nothing. Not unusual in lower end hillbilly neighborhoods. We have a few around here. Many cities have laws prohibiting that. Chicken coops are generally not permitted except in rural areas. If you don't like that, you simply stick to those places that outlaw that stuff. You don't need an HOA. Just added cost and more restrictions on the tasteful stuff you could do to your property.
The only time you can chose to not be in an HOA is when the HOA is forming in an older neighborhood and you already own the house.
Buying into an established HOA neighborhood means buying into the HOA, and abiding by its rules. No option.
And if you're like me (stubborn and independent) why would you buy into an HOA?
Hey -- people love HOAs. People, as you can see here, will fight about them and how they are better for the neighborhood, or how much they are horrible and picky and whatever.... but pretty much EVERYWHERE you don't have to buy into an HOA neighborhood. You can find homes -- nice homes in nice neighborhoods that do not have HOAs.
People are either pro HOA or against HOA, and for each person there is a home for them. I do not understand moving into HOA and then have antagonistic relationship with it -- what's the point of making yourself miserable? But -- I have seen it a number of times. Rules are rules -- but not for them. Oh -- I know the rules are I have to have white window coverings facing the window... but mine are pink... or gold... or blue...... I don't get it why "I" can't have what "I" want.... there are easy solutions, but they'd rather get letters and fined and hassled... which by the way is a hassle and expense for the HOA, and the property manager.
The past few years at this job have made it very clear to me we will never live in an HOA... but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. It means there should be choices... and luckily there ARE.
Okay, so we bought into an old existing non-HOA neighborhood years ago. It had 50 year old simple covenants that we agreed with that auto-renewed every ten years, no big deal. Plus almost every neighbor was violating the one about no out buildings and the developer was long gone, so they weren't being enforced anyway. For example, our neighbor has 4 sheds/garages in his backyard plus a giant RV, and he restores old cars, LOL. It's a very laid back neighborhood, all unique custom homes, some in the woods, some by the road, some with ponds, some with pools.
A few weeks ago, neighbors on the other side of the neighborhood actually filed NEW strict covenants. They got 51% of the neighbors to sign and the rest of us were avoided. No HOA still, but now neighbors can sue each other based on the new covenants. They are vague enough that probably every homeowner is at risk of being sued by a neighbor for something.
Just got back from the attorney's office. What they did was legal. My only option is to draw up my own covenants and go around and get 51% of signatures and file those.
Instead of increasing our home values, they have pretty much made them un-sellable. Who would buy a home where any neighbor can sue you arbitrarily? Amazing that people you don't know, that you have no contractual relationship with, that you did not elect can affect your biggest asset without your consent.
Okay, so we bought into an old existing non-HOA neighborhood years ago. It had 50 year old simple covenants that we agreed with that auto-renewed every ten years, no big deal. Plus almost every neighbor was violating the one about no out buildings and the developer was long gone, so they weren't being enforced anyway. For example, our neighbor has 4 sheds/garages in his backyard plus a giant RV, and he restores old cars, LOL. It's a very laid back neighborhood, all unique custom homes, some in the woods, some by the road, some with ponds, some with pools.
A few weeks ago, neighbors on the other side of the neighborhood actually filed NEW strict covenants. They got 51% of the neighbors to sign and the rest of us were avoided. No HOA still, but now neighbors can sue each other based on the new covenants. They are vague enough that probably every homeowner is at risk of being sued by a neighbor for something.
Just got back from the attorney's office. What they did was legal. My only option is to draw up my own covenants and go around and get 51% of signatures and file those.
Instead of increasing our home values, they have pretty much made them un-sellable. Who would buy a home where any neighbor can sue you arbitrarily? Amazing that people you don't know, that you have no contractual relationship with, that you did not elect can affect your biggest asset without your consent.
What you just said is exactly what happened to our HOA, the board would pass stuff by only having their friends vote on it, no one else was even notified. When they had elections they would stuff the ballot box with votes for their friends. They tried to sell open space (common area) adjacent to one of the houses and actually listed it for sale until the resident who lived near it hired an attorney and paid him $17,000 to force them to drop the idea. Then there was the time that the board decided to convert the pool to salt water, $10,000 later they decided they didn't like salt water so they spent several thousands more to convert it back. I really did the happy dance when I sold that house. HOA's are NOT a democracy anyone who thinks otherwise has never lived in a bad one.
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