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We recently purchased a home with a HOA. We mostly keep to ourselves, greet our neighbor when we see them but never really had the opportunity to hob nob with them. We got a German Shepherd about a few months ago. He is, like a lot of dog, reactive on leash (barks, gets excited and pulls) when he sees other dogs. He is not aggressive though. He's never had a physical encounter with any neighborhood dog except for once when an off leash dog charged him and he was just barking and barking as I had him on a leash. No physical contact between dogs. We know our dog's temperament so we avoid walking our dog during "peak hours"/daytime and prefer to walk him when it's dark.
We received a letter from HOA that neighbors have reported us walking our dog and not picking up after him. This is completely false. When we go for walks, we always make sure we a roll of waste bags and have open one ready when it happens. We also dispose of out dogs waste in our trash can and never leave it around.
Whenever we walk, we see a lot of poop around the neighborhood. During one of our walks, we met one of our neighbors and he had seen that we had picked up after our dog (as evidenced by a bag of poop in hand and the poop bag holder on the leash) and he thanked us for picking up after our dog because "there's lots of people who don't".
We've been "identified" by 3 neighbors, one of them is a board member. They even presented a photo to the HOA manager, which I've yet to see. The photo is taken in broad daylight and we could narrow down the rare times we walked our dog during daylight. What's worst is they said we had our dog off leash, which we never ever did.
To add insult to injury, they also reported that we park at the guest parking overnight, which is a violation. This is completely false because we have 1 car and park inside our garage every single night.
I don't understand why we're being singled out. HOA manager assures me that we are not being singled out but given all the slanderous statement told about us, I cant help but think so.
We are very quite. We've never had parties at the house. We keep our area clean and have been very polite and warm to all the neighbors we had small talk with. The only thing I see is that they could be intimidated by the dog (who tends to bark at other dogs) but really, once he gets reactive, we immediately take him out of the situation and go home (or go elsewhere to calm him down). We've seen off leash dogs. Did we ever report? No. The board member neighbor parks her car overnight every night, did we ever report? No. We see poop around the neighborhood - - small poop that is clearly not a big dog's (it's a predominantly small dog neighborhood).
Part of our mistake is probably we've been very passive or we keep to ourselves. Why do people do this? What do they want out of it?
People tend to shoot first and ask questions later. Should it come to the point where the HOA assesses fines my next move would be to ask for the evidence. We have issues with pet owners not picking up after their dogs and rarely is anything done about it. Not because of lack of enforcement but, rather due to lack of proof.
Welcome to the wonderful world of HOA's! All it takes is for one person to get their panties in a wad and the HOA goes bats**t crazy. The letters make for a great way to start a bonfire.
It's a good thing you don't live in Virginia, where this "defense" falls flat. The 10% of the yards that have the violations for doing their own thing in our neighborhood will run into trouble when they go to sell (perhaps you will, as well. The CO Realtors can answer that one). When a resale package is requested, the ACC violations will be noted. If the property is not returned to conforming with neighborhood standards, the seller will be assessed a fine, and, the buyer must sign a statement at closing acknowledging the violation and agrees to remedy the property within 30 days. Nothing turns off a buyer than a property with a problem.
Your two wrongs make it right may have worked in your situation, but most legal advisors will tell you it's not a defense. That's like telling the judge all five of your friends and you each drove home drunk, but locking you up was arbitrary and capricious.
Sorry, but this actually took place in Falls Church, Virginia. And nothing happened when I sold, nor did anything change in the two sellings after that. The landscaping I did still stands (recently checked it out on Google Maps).
But I think you're missing the point, and if you had really read what I wrote, rather than simply jump in to argue a point, you'd have caught that:
1. I decided to take my front "yard", which was the size of a small dining room, remove the grass, give it 3 levels with small "railroad ties", and plant shrubs. No more mowing. I knew the HOA would say no, so I went around our very large townhome complex and took a photo of all the townhomes who had done something similar. It was about 10% of the properties...about 20 townhomes. When I submitted my plan I was, of course, turned down. I resubmitted the same day with the properties listed which had done something similar with attached photos. In my resubmission I mentioned the term "arbitrary and capricious". Project approved. Case closed.
2. I wanted to replace my front exterior door with a higher quality different style door. I was turned down. I walked up the street took a photo of a townhouse with the same door I wanted, resubmitted my proposal with photograph and included the phrase "arbitrary and capricious". Door approved. Case closed.
3. We had a snowfall of just under 3", which meant I was responsible for shoveling my own walk. The HOA president called and noted that I had not shoveled the walk. I told her I had the flu (which was true), and I would not be shoveling my walk until the HOA shoveled the common walk adjacent to my townhome. The HOA president came and shoveled my walk for me.
And in example 3, the snow wouldn't be hanging around until the next sale.
Sorry, but this actually took place in Falls Church, Virginia. And nothing happened when I sold, nor did anything change in the two sellings after that. The landscaping I did still stands (recently checked it out on Google Maps).
But I think you're missing the point, and if you had really read what I wrote, rather than simply jump in to argue a point, you'd have caught that:
1. I decided to take my front "yard", which was the size of a small dining room, remove the grass, give it 3 levels with small "railroad ties", and plant shrubs. No more mowing. I knew the HOA would say no, so I went around our very large townhome complex and took a photo of all the townhomes who had done something similar. It was about 10% of the properties...about 20 townhomes. When I submitted my plan I was, of course, turned down. I resubmitted the same day with the properties listed which had done something similar with attached photos. In my resubmission I mentioned the term "arbitrary and capricious". Project approved. Case closed.
2. I wanted to replace my front exterior door with a higher quality different style door. I was turned down. I walked up the street took a photo of a townhouse with the same door I wanted, resubmitted my proposal with photograph and included the phrase "arbitrary and capricious". Door approved. Case closed.
3. We had a snowfall of just under 3", which meant I was responsible for shoveling my own walk. The HOA president called and noted that I had not shoveled the walk. I told her I had the flu (which was true), and I would not be shoveling my walk until the HOA shoveled the common walk adjacent to my townhome. The HOA president came and shoveled my walk for me.
And in example 3, the snow wouldn't be hanging around until the next sale.
For your examples it would depend on the HOA and state law. I tell our new people that just because you see it somewhere else doesn't mean you can do it. Those people were grandfathered in. I also live in a no waiver state. If a rule was never enforced the board could start enforcing it at any time. The fact that it was never enforced means nothing. It does have to be enforced equally when you do start enforcing it.
I was very polite when I talked to the manager. I'm not too upset with the manager, more with the neighbors who "identified" us.
I'm 150% sure that we never did what we are accused of. My fear is this -- what if the dog and owner on the photo is us and the photo is a "misinterpretation"? Photo could have been taken when my dog was pooping but the photographer chose to stop there and ignored the fact that we actually picked up after him. That's so easy to do.
I'm also baffled how 3 neighbors actually saw us "not pick up" (when it never happened?) Or is it more likely, they saw us walk our dog and they identified us as the dog owner of the GSD and decided to conclude that we did not pick up just like that?
I followed up my call with the manager with an email. I sent him photos of our trash can where you can see bags of poop accumulated from the last trash run. Photos of our supply of trash bags were sent as well. I know that doesn't prove much but I had to show something
This AM I walked around the neighborhood (without the dog) and took photos of all the "samples" I saw laying around the community. I took close up shots and shots from a distance so the manager can see exactly where int he community it was taken. I sent all the photos to the manager with labels "exhibit a, b, c" with some notes (e.g size of sample is not consistent with "big dog"). I told him I sent the presentation to him because I, just like him, would like to get to the bottom of this.
He says he can't show me photo of dog until mid next week.
For your examples it would depend on the HOA and state law. I tell our new people that just because you see it somewhere else doesn't mean you can do it. Those people were grandfathered in. I also live in a no waiver state. If a rule was never enforced the board could start enforcing it at any time. The fact that it was never enforced means nothing. It does have to be enforced equally when you do start enforcing it.
I'm going to repeat what I stated above. After all was said and done, the HOA approved the changes in writing, and those approvals were handed over to the new owners.
Further, the townhome complexes I lived in -- both in Virginia and Colorado have clauses along the lines of if a homeowner makes an alteration of the property without permission, and is not cited by the HOA within 90 days, then the alteration is considered to be approved. (The number of days varied; in my current complex it is 30 days).
Yet another thread that cements my decision to NEVER, EVER, own a home in an HOA. I used to work for a property management company years ago and the baloney that went on with the HOA's was honestly ridiculous.
OP, gather as much evidence that you can and stay calm about it all. If you get all crazy and mad that will just give the people who have singled you out more fuel for their fires. I wish you luck!
Yet another thread that cements my decision to NEVER, EVER, own a home in an HOA. I used to work for a property management company years ago and the baloney that went on with the HOA's was honestly ridiculous.
OP, gather as much evidence that you can and stay calm about it all. If you get all crazy and mad that will just give the people who have singled you out more fuel for their fires. I wish you luck!
I am trying to be calm about it. I think i might buy a go-pro cam to record our daytime walks within the neighborhood.
I dont know what evidence I can present to prove we DO pick up?! It's us against 3 accusers! I don't know what made them decide LIE about us.
We recently purchased a home with a HOA. We mostly keep to ourselves, greet our neighbor when we see them but never really had the opportunity to hob nob with them. We got a German Shepherd about a few months ago. He is, like a lot of dog, reactive on leash (barks, gets excited and pulls) when he sees other dogs. He is not aggressive though. He's never had a physical encounter with any neighborhood dog except for once when an off leash dog charged him and he was just barking and barking as I had him on a leash. No physical contact between dogs. We know our dog's temperament so we avoid walking our dog during "peak hours"/daytime and prefer to walk him when it's dark.
We received a letter from HOA that neighbors have reported us walking our dog and not picking up after him. This is completely false. When we go for walks, we always make sure we a roll of waste bags and have open one ready when it happens. We also dispose of out dogs waste in our trash can and never leave it around.
Whenever we walk, we see a lot of poop around the neighborhood. During one of our walks, we met one of our neighbors and he had seen that we had picked up after our dog (as evidenced by a bag of poop in hand and the poop bag holder on the leash) and he thanked us for picking up after our dog because "there's lots of people who don't".
We've been "identified" by 3 neighbors, one of them is a board member. They even presented a photo to the HOA manager, which I've yet to see. The photo is taken in broad daylight and we could narrow down the rare times we walked our dog during daylight. What's worst is they said we had our dog off leash, which we never ever did.
To add insult to injury, they also reported that we park at the guest parking overnight, which is a violation. This is completely false because we have 1 car and park inside our garage every single night.
I don't understand why we're being singled out. HOA manager assures me that we are not being singled out but given all the slanderous statement told about us, I cant help but think so.
We are very quite. We've never had parties at the house. We keep our area clean and have been very polite and warm to all the neighbors we had small talk with. The only thing I see is that they could be intimidated by the dog (who tends to bark at other dogs) but really, once he gets reactive, we immediately take him out of the situation and go home (or go elsewhere to calm him down). We've seen off leash dogs. Did we ever report? No. The board member neighbor parks her car overnight every night, did we ever report? No. We see poop around the neighborhood - - small poop that is clearly not a big dog's (it's a predominantly small dog neighborhood).
Part of our mistake is probably we've been very passive or we keep to ourselves. Why do people do this? What do they want out of it?
As someone that now serves on the board of directors of an HOA and someone that fought to disband a prior HOA, not all HOAs are created equal. Chances are, not cleaning up after your dog is breaking a general public law. If they had photographic evidence, they likely would have filed a formal complaint with the police. We had a family take a refrigerator and put it on their front sidewalk. No chains or rope to keep it tied shut, just sitting there for any kid to play around in. (They refused to come to the door when someone knocked on their door). We tried to report it to the police for littering of unlawful disposal, but we were told they could only site someone if we had a picture showing who put the fridge there. It sat there for 48 hours before the HOA hired someone to haul it away.
Don't worry about what they are saying, worry about yourself and make certain you are following the rules. I agree and seriously doubt there's a picture or you would have been presented with it. The three biggest repeat offenses in our HOA are doggie doo, unlawful disposal/trash, and parking. I think eventually, all will fade. But most of all, don't let them get to you. You pay to live and ENJOY your home. You've already lost the battle if you cannot find peace in when home. Tune them out and they can't win.
Sorry, but this actually took place in Falls Church, Virginia. And nothing happened when I sold, nor did anything change in the two sellings after that. The landscaping I did still stands (recently checked it out on Google Maps).
But I think you're missing the point, and if you had really read what I wrote, rather than simply jump in to argue a point, you'd have caught that:
1. I decided to take my front "yard", which was the size of a small dining room, remove the grass, give it 3 levels with small "railroad ties", and plant shrubs. No more mowing. I knew the HOA would say no, so I went around our very large townhome complex and took a photo of all the townhomes who had done something similar. It was about 10% of the properties...about 20 townhomes. When I submitted my plan I was, of course, turned down. I resubmitted the same day with the properties listed which had done something similar with attached photos. In my resubmission I mentioned the term "arbitrary and capricious". Project approved. Case closed.
2. I wanted to replace my front exterior door with a higher quality different style door. I was turned down. I walked up the street took a photo of a townhouse with the same door I wanted, resubmitted my proposal with photograph and included the phrase "arbitrary and capricious". Door approved. Case closed.
3. We had a snowfall of just under 3", which meant I was responsible for shoveling my own walk. The HOA president called and noted that I had not shoveled the walk. I told her I had the flu (which was true), and I would not be shoveling my walk until the HOA shoveled the common walk adjacent to my townhome. The HOA president came and shoveled my walk for me.
And in example 3, the snow wouldn't be hanging around until the next sale.
Sorry, not buying it, your argument was if others do it and you should be able to, or you can cry unequal treatment. We do not air violations among the community, but those in non-compliance know their status. If someone files a complaint, they are the only ones, besides the homeowner in noncompliance, that knows of the action by the ACC. But if someone whines because they can't violate the rules like their neighbor, the two wrongs defense doesn't hold up. We can back up with ACC violations, notice after notice that their neighbor, and now the whiner, are all equally being treated the same.
Some HOAs, like your former home just are not equipped to manage, or they would have found a similar solution and had the paperwork to support equal treatment. It most definitely stops buyers in their tracks (the exception being the investor buying below market). But then again, they probably thought they hit paydirt when someone in noncompliance went on the market and didn't interfere with the sale.
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