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I will give you the bottom line, and then go into detail.
Bottom line is that my HOA mgmt is giving me information that conflicts with the bylaws. This isn't the board (which is comprised of condo owners), but two people from the management co., specifically the prop mgr and the asst prop mgr. I am pretty sure these people are employed by the association, and do not live in it, tho I would have to do some research to find out definitively.
To be clear, this hasn't escalated into all-out-war. Which I know happens sometimes. We aren't fighting, and the convo has been cordial.
This is not a building, but single-unit, two-level townhomes, some of which are connected, where each unit is individually owned. In front of my unit and the unit next to me, is a small garden bed. It is almost fully in front of the units, with it sloping inwards, and touching the exterior wall that houses both units. There is a railing inbetween my short walkway and this garden. The garden is technically accessible by anyone, as it is open to the rest of the property. Due to it's size, however, if you don't live in either of these two units, there would be no reason for you to touch it.
The bylaws do not state specifically who's responsibility the garden beds are. It does list common elements (CE) and limited common elements (LCE). LCEs are doorsteps, stoops, porches, balconies, decks, designated parking spaces, chimneys, and a bunch more. But again, no mention of garden beds. Furthermore, the bylaws clearly state that the maintenance of grounds in the CEs, such as plantings, flowers and shrubs, are the responsibility of the association.
However, mgmt is telling me that the garden bed is a LCE, and owner responsibility. But again, the bylaws seem to be telling me otherwise.
Does anyone have any experience or insight here? Maybe I am missing something, but I just do not know what.
I have tons of experience. As a property claim rep I must have handled hundreds of condo and townhouse claims.
I had to read the CC&RS/bylaw of each one. That taught me that every one was different.
For me to give you an opinion on yours I would have to read the whole set. The nuances are often so subtle that a layman can easily miss something or misinterpret something. Even property managers and board members often didn't get it right.
If you are willing to upload it to dropbox I should be able to access it. I'm registered there. You can message me with the link if you don't want to post it in this thread.
PS. An aerial view of the townhomes and gardens would also help.
Last edited by adjusterjack; 12-05-2022 at 08:43 PM..
As someone who has served on HOA boards for 20+ years, I would agree with Rabrrita. Whenever we sent out a violation or responded to an issue of responsibility a reference to the section in the CC&Rs was always made for the owner's understanding.
In my experience with a number of different management companies, the majority of them did not have a deep knowledge or understanding of the association's CC&Rs or governing documents. One that we had was excellent, and had reviewed them in depth before we even hired them.
But, if you want them to interfere and remove the garden bed. Make a huge fuss. Otherwise, take care of it or take turns with your neighbor. Also address the negative slope to the landscaping.
It's not unusual for a town home or condo to have a little bit of dirt adjacent to it the the homeowner takes care of. So, that tiny flower bed might be your responsibility.
I suggest that you contact the HOA and ask them why they are not taking care of that flower bed. If they tell you that they aren't taking care if it because it is your responsibility, then you and the neighbor had best start to take care of it.
I would get this clarified before you start a war with your property manager. If it is the HOAs responsibility, remind them to start taking care of it. If it is your responsibility there is very little reason to fight with your manager about it and get yourself put on the non-renew list.
I will give you the bottom line, and then go into detail.
Bottom line is that my HOA mgmt is giving me information that conflicts with the bylaws. This isn't the board (which is comprised of condo owners), but two people from the management co., specifically the prop mgr and the asst prop mgr. I am pretty sure these people are employed by the association, and do not live in it, tho I would have to do some research to find out definitively.
To be clear, this hasn't escalated into all-out-war. Which I know happens sometimes. We aren't fighting, and the convo has been cordial.
This is not a building, but single-unit, two-level townhomes, some of which are connected, where each unit is individually owned. In front of my unit and the unit next to me, is a small garden bed. It is almost fully in front of the units, with it sloping inwards, and touching the exterior wall that houses both units. There is a railing inbetween my short walkway and this garden. The garden is technically accessible by anyone, as it is open to the rest of the property. Due to it's size, however, if you don't live in either of these two units, there would be no reason for you to touch it.
The bylaws do not state specifically who's responsibility the garden beds are. It does list common elements (CE) and limited common elements (LCE). LCEs are doorsteps, stoops, porches, balconies, decks, designated parking spaces, chimneys, and a bunch more. But again, no mention of garden beds. Furthermore, the bylaws clearly state that the maintenance of grounds in the CEs, such as plantings, flowers and shrubs, are the responsibility of the association.
However, mgmt is telling me that the garden bed is a LCE, and owner responsibility. But again, the bylaws seem to be telling me otherwise.
Does anyone have any experience or insight here? Maybe I am missing something, but I just do not know what.
Thanks in advance.
First you referred to the board as comprising condo owners. Later you refer to the structures as two-level townhomes. Depending upon your state the laws governing condominiums and the laws pertaining to townhomes may be very different.
Condominiums are creatures of statute in every state. Condo laws are often quite different from HOA laws.
The areas and responsibilities you refer to would usually be set forth in declarations of condominium or declarations, conditions, and covenants rather than bylaws.
The Declaration is the document that should describe the elements that are your responsibility, and which are Association responsibility. The prior poster notes that condos and HOA's operate under separate and usually quite different laws, however the Declaration and By-Laws for your Association will be the determining factor for your issue, as both types of entities have similar named Governing Documents based on the applicable law. Based on your comment regarding ”grounds are Association responsibility”, it may well be. However, I have seen many Declarations that are less than clear on specific elements. In those cases, I (as Managing Agent) advise the Board to have the Association Attorney review the document and provide their legal opinion regarding responsibility for the specific element(s) in question. They will then review and advise accordingly, which the Board then uses as ”the last word” for that specific issue.
It actually does make sense that the flowerbeds could be Limited Common Elements, which, just like many parking stalls, are yours to use, but must also be maintained to a certain standard.
Most importantly, you need to put your requests for information and guidance IN WRITING. Phone calls make very poor evidence. Don't waste your time calling or complaining to Board Members anywhere except at a properly noticed Board Meeting. They are volunteers. They are not ”on the clock” and have little to no authority to make decisions or state positions independently and without agreement by the majority of the Board. Your Managing Agent/Account Executive is the proper ”point of contact” for your written communications to get response from the Board. That response should include reference to the specific language from their Governing documents to support their statements. The Agent also has no authority to make independent decisions or statements without prior Board approval.
Excellent advice, BeachBum808!! I agree completely with your comments and suggestions to the OP.
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