Are buyers being unreasonable bullies? (RE market, tenants, prices, properties)
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Then, the story went fairly similar to OP's. Back and forth Back and forth Back and forth Back and forth.... I called BS BS BS BS BS. I was getting very emotional and really wanted to just be done with the buyer and wait for other offer.
But, really, the question was.... can I get an offer from someone else, or how soon can I expect it to happen? If the answer is no and not-so-soon, AND if I have to move on, I kind of have to bite the bullet and make the deal with the buyer. Talking/thinking about "usually this kind of house in this area gets sold for how much" kind of chit chat...."now we are in sellers market"... kind of things... all do not matter.
I am very sure that if there had been another offer or even high chances of getting an offer from another buyer, then the stories (both mine and OP's) would have been very different--no need to get emotional, no need to even bring up buyers nationality, etc.
So, let's not forget that. I wanted to sell the house, and this guy happened to be the only one who was going to buy at that very moment and unfortunately he wanted to pay way less than I hoped to sell for. Bad luck. We are kind of stuck, but what can you do, really?
All the cultural things, the way people negotiate.... I/we/he/they should've done this and that... all of these things really do not matter. All transactions are between two parties. I disagree that we need to consider the other party's cultural background. I guess some posters' point was that "consider their culture, because that's normal for them, so be warned and don't get emotional." That sounds about right, but the more important thing is----WE SHOULD NEVER GET EMOTIONAL ANYWAY during the transaction, regardless of the other party's cultural background. Then, should I have been more pissed off because my buyer, the dirty cheap low-baller, was a caucasian American?
That's the lesson I learned and I moved on.
In hindsight, I give much credit to my RE, who tried her best to reduce the emotional factor at all cost and helped me think through. Had I kept my emotions and my strong ego and the deal broken as a result, I would have been in a very bad situation afterwards. She saved me from that.
(edit) I forgot to mention the final price. It was 260.5K. Yes, we were down to counting a few hundred bucks. Crazy.
Actually, maybe that was 259.5K, the thing is---in just handful years, I even forget the number that I was fighting for!
Americans and most westerners are often at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiating when they go abroad - which is the other side of the coin.
Haggling is common when one buys things in some countries and there is an art involved in doing it the right way including countering with your first offer. When we were in China a couple of years ago we went to a place where one was expected to haggle. With us were a couple who lived in India and who really knew how to negotiate. We ended up buying an American Tourister suitcase for a fraction of what we would have paid here - thanks to our friends who took over the negotiating. Their first offer for the suitcase was about 20% of what the vendor asked - I was almost embarrassed by their counter but I kept quiet. They went back and forth and we ended up buying the suitcase for about 35% of what the vendor wanted.
As we left, we saw a tourist from Europe with the very same suitcase which he told us he bought at the same store. He said he got a real bargain and when I asked him what he paid it turned out that he offered more than two times the price we paid. He asked me what I paid and I did not have the heart to tell him that he had been taken and so I said that I paid about the same.
I can understand where he came from: in the West it is just not the norm to offer a fraction of the price for something even when there is haggling allowed.
A real estate transaction is merely an extension of the same process. What may seem like an outrageous counter may not have any significance to someone who comes from a culture where bargaining is part of the process of negotiating.
Remember not so long ago it was considered unheard of to negotiate a realtor's commission - and an agent would likely take offense at a seller who did so. Today it is the norm.
Before I retired, I was involved in negotiating acquisitions for the company where I worked. The one thing I learned is that the ultimate negotiating leverage that both sides have is to walk away from the transaction. More important than actually walking away is the belief by the other side that you are willing to walk away.
This is very true. The US is not really a haggling culture which I think is partially why so many Americans suck at buying houses and cars, the two main purchases where haggling is common or even somewhat expected.
I'm awesome at buying cars and houses despite being American, but I'm only second generation American and all four of my grandparents (Jewish refugees) were legendary hagglers. (Yeah yeah, stereotypes, I know. In this case it's true.)
Car salesmen hate me.
South Asians are stereotyped as driving a hard bargain but this isn't universally true. I work with a lot of south Asians and some of my coworkers pay full sticker on cars or get ripped off on house purchases/home repairs because they don't know what they're doing. One of them was totally shocked that I was able to negotiate thousands of dollars off the sticker price of both my recent car purchases and one even offered me money to come with him to a dealership to negotiate FOR him. (I gave him advice instead.)
But getting back to my point...more Americans should try driving a hard bargain. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Just want to update everyone on another tactic by this sleazy buyer:
Financing on the home finally went through and I sold it, Yay!!
Anyway, My intuition on them being bullies/jerks/whatever you want to call them was spot on:
After their requested repairs from their inspection report, I complied with everything. I even did a little extra like getting professional carpet cleaning and professional house cleaning.
A day before closing the buyers agent did a walk through. The buyer resides in another state and is seeking to turn this into a rental property. The agent sees a burn mark in the middle of the carpet in the hallway. It's about the size of the bottom of a fast food cup. This is the same burn mark that's always been there (during showing, during inspection, during their free quote from a foundation repair company, etc). The buyers never mentioned wanting to get this repair. If so, I would have gladly done it since patching carpet is easy and I have extra carpet in the attic.
They do their walk through around noon a day before closing. Nine hours later, they call to complain about the burn mark. They say that they thought it was a stain and they refuse to sign the paperwork to close unless I take care of the issue. This puts me in a very bad spot since I am literally less than 12 hours away from going to the Title company to close. Yes, they would have been in default and I would have definitely won the case in court. Both me and my agent thought this was a stone cold bluff and just downright unethical. Why mention the burn mark nine hours later? It's like they wait all day to purposely not give me a chance to fix the issue. Then they use the fact that all of my furniture is out of the home (the inside won't show the same to potential buyers) and the outside won't show the same (due to the foundation repair). So now, I'm in a bad spot. They are told that I have plenty of extra carpet that they can use to patch but this isn't good enough for them. We are told that it's a repair that the buyer isn't comfortable making?!? What?! This is an investment property and I'm sure he owns a lot of them.
Okay, At this point, I really want to call them out on their bs. But I remember the advice of you good folks and swallow my pride. Even my agent suggested I call their bluff. But instead, I asked to see if they'll take $100. I wanted to put a price on their bs. They counter with, they'll take $200. SMH, so they were going to walk away from their option and earnest money for $200? Yea right! I give in anyway so I can be done with these jerks. SMH... these people were absolutely ridiculous. I was sure to go back to the home before closing the next morning to take out all the extra carpet, paint, and tiles I was going to leave with the home. If those jerks want to patch the carpet, they'll have to take it from an inconspicuous place like a closet or something.
My advice: When you deal with SOME people from a haggling culture,, be prepared for the most ridiculous things ever. Some of these people will demean themselves through some of the most unethical ways. And this last minute tactic was downright despicable.
Buyer counter: Buyer accepts but now wants an additional $2k off the house.
Seller counter: Absolutely not.
Buyer: Threatens to terminate the contract before the option period if sellers doesn't drop another $2k. They bluff all day and now just want another $1k off. They then threaten to terminate the contract if seller doesn't come down another $1k before the option period ends in 36 hours.
....
Any thoughts?
Unless you live in a buyers market I would tell my Realtor to communicate to them that my final offer before the above stands, and tell them the applicable time limits associated offer(s) apply and the house will be removed from "pending" status and returned to "available" status after the time period expires.
Noting the buyer comes from a culture where bargaining is considered the norm and anybody who doesn't barter a significant amount off the asking price is considered stupid.
Again, unless it's a buyer's market just tell them to take a hike, unless you decide the final deal is worth more than gambling you can do better or as good in the time frame you have in mind to sell your house.
In the end it always comes down to money and time, and whether the buyer has believable credentials that you believe they can deliver on the contract. A pre-approved loan would be good, or even better verifiable cash in bank on an all cash offer.
Note also that pre-contract negotiations are a harbinger of what to expect during escrow, and you should consider that a PITA before escrow will probably be a PITA during escrow up to and including closing.
If this is an accurate sample of pre-escrow buyer's mentality then I would consider it a bad sign of what to expect during escrow.
They say that they thought it was a stain and they refuse to sign the paperwork to close unless I take care of the issue. This puts me in a very bad spot since I am literally less than 12 hours away from going to the Title company to close. Yes, they would have been in default and I would have definitely won the case in court.
Question for OP: Did you reveal the burn mark, in your statement of condition of the home? Even lighting conditions may not have revealed it as a burn mark when the buyer saw the property. Now the house was empty of furniture, etc., it is much easier to spot something like this.
The buyer would only have to say they were lead to believe it was a stain, and if it was a stain, stains can be removed. They now know it is a burn mark, which has to have a part of the carpet replaced to repair it. If you did not reveal the problem, they had no prior way to know it was a burn mark. If you did not reveal it was a burn mark, don't be so sure you would win. In cases like this, judges will usually go with the buyer winning, if you did not reveal it was a burn that could not just be cleaned away. That is the purpose of the form where you reveal any problems. Failing to put something like this on the list, can get your contract cancelled. Being you had the carpet needed for the repair, and know how to do it, a smart agent would have had you fix that problem prior to putting your home on the market. A lot of buyers would have demanded you change the carpet in the hall, not just repair it with a plug.
Waiting 9 hours to contract you back, when it was inspected by a third party not the out of town buyer can be very reasonable because it may have taken that long for the agent to contact the buyers and ask them what to do.
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