U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-26-2017, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
29,232 posts, read 69,882,573 times
Reputation: 35968

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by parfleche View Post
In my experience 46 years as a Carpenter the older the better.I just trim now but 80% is glorified cardboard even in half million $ homes.The exterior sidings and trim same crap no wood anywhere.It will last with good paint but neglect it once and watch it swell up first rain or snow it will fail. Same with fake stucco with a poor or no drain plane.My home was built in 1896 and is 100% wood and will outlast anything built today. I will not side a house today unless cement board or wood to much liability and callbacks.
This always comes from older craftsmen and building/architectural historians who have experience with both. However many modern "carpenters" will say modern lumber is as good as anything that came before because they do not know better. the same people tend to phsaw the fact that trusses, especially lightweight fail very easily in a fire (at least until their roof falls on their head in a fire. (But trusses are so much easier and faster to instal - and who knows how to calculate and lay out rafters anymore?).

The carpenter/GC we used for some work said he will no longer build decks of wood for the liability and call back reasons you mentioned. Modern lumber is just not reliable as a structural component. Some of it will be fine, but some of it - well that is too bad the warranty has expired.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-26-2017, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA & El Pescadero, BCS MX.
6,958 posts, read 20,503,183 times
Reputation: 6429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Modern lumber is just not reliable as a structural component. Some of it will be fine, but some of it - well that is too bad the warranty has expired.
Back in the day when I swatted at nails, (80's) I found a 2X6X10' in a unit that had 4 growth rings from the center to the outside edge. We laid it aside and within 10 days it had managed to twist itself almost 90° in 10 feet.

Do any demo on a home prior to that, and I think you'll find the growth rings are far tighter and therefore more likely to remain straight over time.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2017, 08:15 AM
 
Location: 26°N x 82°W
945 posts, read 495,411 times
Reputation: 1716
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinetreecity View Post
In FL, and much of the south, I would say the houses built during the go-go 2000 years are ones to avoid. In particular, watch out for the drywall. There was a big scandal during that time where imported drywall contained toxic chemicals that would leech out and eventually destroy plumbing and cause health problems. Drywall inspection closing cost fees now exist.
Good information, thank you.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2017, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
29,232 posts, read 69,882,573 times
Reputation: 35968
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMenscha View Post
Back in the day when I swatted at nails, (80's) I found a 2X6X10' in a unit that had 4 growth rings from the center to the outside edge. We laid it aside and within 10 days it had managed to twist itself almost 90° in 10 feet.

Do any demo on a home prior to that, and I think you'll find the growth rings are far tighter and therefore more likely to remain straight over time.
Thanks. Learn something new every day. Now I know to count growth rings when selecting lumber. Obviously you cannot do that with a whole truckload, but if I need three or six boards form Home Depot, it is as good a way as any to try to find some that will not pretzel.

When restoring our house, I ordered several truckloads of 2x4s. These were smaller (bobtail?) trucks, not semis - I thik it was 240 or 300 2x4s in a load. Two loads had to be sent back. One becasue they were so wet and what I call reedy you could push in a nail and pull it out with your hands, plus there was a puddle of liquid under the pallet after 24 hours. Another load, we used some if it and then could not do anything further until the next weekend at which time we found nearly all of the lumber had pretzeled, even most of the stuff we had installed. You would think being built into a square wall, the boards would support each other and prevent the twisting, but it did not. Annoying thing was this was supposedly premium lumber from a premium supplier, not big box.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2017, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,062 posts, read 8,288,773 times
Reputation: 4840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Thanks. Learn something new every day. Now I know to count growth rings when selecting lumber. Obviously you cannot do that with a whole truckload, but if I need three or six boards form Home Depot, it is as good a way as any to try to find some that will not pretzel.

When restoring our house, I ordered several truckloads of 2x4s. These were smaller (bobtail?) trucks, not semis - I thik it was 240 or 300 2x4s in a load. Two loads had to be sent back. One becasue they were so wet and what I call reedy you could push in a nail and pull it out with your hands, plus there was a puddle of liquid under the pallet after 24 hours. Another load, we used some if it and then could not do anything further until the next weekend at which time we found nearly all of the lumber had pretzeled, even most of the stuff we had installed. You would think being built into a square wall, the boards would support each other and prevent the twisting, but it did not. Annoying thing was this was supposedly premium lumber from a premium supplier, not big box.
This illustrates the point: Old 2x4 vs New | Rebrn.com
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2017, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,296 posts, read 14,971,689 times
Reputation: 25054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
This always comes from older craftsmen and building/architectural historians who have experience with both. However many modern "carpenters" will say modern lumber is as good as anything that came before because they do not know better. the same people tend to phsaw the fact that trusses, especially lightweight fail very easily in a fire (at least until their roof falls on their head in a fire. (But trusses are so much easier and faster to instal - and who knows how to calculate and lay out rafters anymore?).

The carpenter/GC we used for some work said he will no longer build decks of wood for the liability and call back reasons you mentioned. Modern lumber is just not reliable as a structural component. Some of it will be fine, but some of it - well that is too bad the warranty has expired.
A stud wall is the most overdesigned framing member in the world. I used to cast concrete railroad beams with a 3' x 6' cross section 20 feet in the air, held up by nothing but a couple 2x4 stud walls with diagonal bracing. As for trusses collapsing in a fire, if the house is fully involved it's trash anyway. You have to haul any burned members to the dump, be it an engineered truss or a 6x8 beam. If they are stupid enough to sit in the living room while the house is fully involved, they are dead anyway. Nobody cares if the roof falls on their heads.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2017, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,296 posts, read 14,971,689 times
Reputation: 25054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Thanks. Learn something new every day. Now I know to count growth rings when selecting lumber. Obviously you cannot do that with a whole truckload, but if I need three or six boards form Home Depot, it is as good a way as any to try to find some that will not pretzel.

When restoring our house, I ordered several truckloads of 2x4s. These were smaller (bobtail?) trucks, not semis - I thik it was 240 or 300 2x4s in a load. Two loads had to be sent back. One becasue they were so wet and what I call reedy you could push in a nail and pull it out with your hands, plus there was a puddle of liquid under the pallet after 24 hours. Another load, we used some if it and then could not do anything further until the next weekend at which time we found nearly all of the lumber had pretzeled, even most of the stuff we had installed. You would think being built into a square wall, the boards would support each other and prevent the twisting, but it did not. Annoying thing was this was supposedly premium lumber from a premium supplier, not big box.
Interesting. Here on the west coast, it's almost impossible to find lumber that has not been kiln dried. Lumber yards are co-gen facilities who use chips and sawdust to run the boilers to make electricity, and use waste steam to heat the kilns. There is no shrinkage, so no nail pops, and lumber that is straight when it is delivered stays straight. I had no idea Michigan was so far behind the times.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2017, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,296 posts, read 14,971,689 times
Reputation: 25054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
This always comes from older craftsmen and building/architectural historians who have experience with both. However many modern "carpenters" will say modern lumber is as good as anything that came before because they do not know better. the same people tend to phsaw the fact that trusses, especially lightweight fail very easily in a fire (at least until their roof falls on their head in a fire. (But trusses are so much easier and faster to instal - and who knows how to calculate and lay out rafters anymore?).

The carpenter/GC we used for some work said he will no longer build decks of wood for the liability and call back reasons you mentioned. Modern lumber is just not reliable as a structural component. Some of it will be fine, but some of it - well that is too bad the warranty has expired.
When I rebuilt my rotten wood deck I used treated lumber for the framing and wood/plastic composite for the deck and railing. It's 12 years old and still looks fine. Wooden decks are for the la-de-dah crowd who will just dump maintenance problems on the next owners.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2017, 08:21 PM
 
3,113 posts, read 2,096,834 times
Reputation: 2959
I think the 60s were better than the 50s or 70s....copper plumbing, but pre aluminum wiring and electric baseboard heat. 80s were better than the 70s, but that is when the lumber/plywood started really lacking. I think worst may be 2000....no craftsmanship, at all. Throw in a granite counter top..and it suddenly becomes high end. Ironically, in the DC area, nothing really appreciated more than the Sears homes of the 30s..I think they still honor the lifetime guarantee on wood knots. But, of course it is all about......the "L word" and will always be. I see people build their dream homes, frequently going 40% over budget, and factoring in the cheap lot... they would lose 40% if they had to sell. Meanwhile liveable shacks on prime properties continue to rise off the charts. The big payoff comes with the bulldozer.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-28-2017, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Mount Monadnock, NH
716 posts, read 1,189,294 times
Reputation: 685
I think its dependent on regional situations for the most part, though generally speaking from my own experience, it seems homes built prior to about 1960-65 tend to be built better.

It really seems to be when there is a period where houses are being thrown up quickly, lots of them at once, on a tight time-table, corners tend to be cut, lower-quality materials might get used, etc. In times when builders in an area are building fewer at once, I think they have a tendency to pay more attention to how they are building each unit. Profit is a major driving force behind modern home construction----in my area, in southern New England, during the "housing boom" of the late 90s to early 2000s, lots of new hosing was going up and the general quality tended to suffer a bit as a result when you compare to houses built say 30-40 years prior, built during the post-war housing boom in the same area (ie 1950-1965).

I have seen plenty of old junk too: where I lived in Charleston, SC there were neighborhoods of former military housing building during WWII. A lot of those houses were slapped together very quickly with little prior planning...and materials and labor were not as abundant as in peace time. A lot of those houses have serious problems now due to the fact they were built on the cheap, corners cut. So, I can not really say age itself is always going to be a determiner.

That said, I personally feel the houses built in olden times, like old Victorians of the later 19th century tend to be built quite well when compared to much of the modern day houses of average construction (that is, not custom built for one person, but built en mass by a developer). Pre-1900 houses often use better, old-growth lumber and more robust framing when compared to newer homes. I have long favored older, pre-WWII houses, partly for that reason, along with my personal preferences in taste and style.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top