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Certainly there is a "bias" - no argument there, that said - as an investor, I know "better" than most buyers & sellers do about things that require guys like me to write /checks/. You know, material defects that need to be repaired to preserve the value of a property, things that pose health & safety issues, etc. if the only issues an inspector can raise are appearance issues or things not required by code or appraisals - they aren't by anyone's definition "major" issues.
Code does not address future failure of components, we do. My wife was an FHA appraiser for ten years and she is astounded that you conflate what they look at versus what we look at. Seriously, they perform a cursory glance for a bank, not an in-depth inspection for a buyer.
If you're hunting for bears, and you only ever bring home squirrels - you're still a "hunter", but you can't rightly pretend to be a "bear hunter".
Just this week I have found a heavily deteriorated girder, extensive termite infestation, water intrusion/mold in a couple crawlspaces, improperly installed water heater which was an explosion waiting to happen, serious electrical hazards, foundation and cantilevered floor settling, etc. Those are a lot of bears, and appraisers would be unlikely to find any of them. I do hunt a lot of squirrels too, it is our job to find it all, not just a minimum check that pleases the seller.
To be brutal, neither of these "inspectors" was /smart/ enough to format & design the software they were using to generate these nit-pick, fluff-ball, "check-box" reports - so the issue isn't one of me "just getting one bad inspector/ report", nor is it sour -grapes (I got my money & didn't do *any* of the suggested horse-****).
Most inspectors use software nowadays from one of a few big companies. That software cost tens of thousands of dollars and/or hundreds of hours to create. All you are seeing is the final PDF, not the actual software and everything it entails. This isn't about being "smart enough", we are not software engineers, why would we spend all the time to learn how to create the software when we can buy one for $500 and be done with it? With that said, I am not a fan of simple checklist reports or canned comments on issues. We explain the issue, the impact of the issue, and what direction should be taken to address them.
I believe the issue is likely widespread because these inspectors bought their software from somebody, and because I've read the NACHI standards for myself. Have you?
Nachi is basically a marketing group. Their standards are a bare minimum. Like in any field, there are good and bad inspectors. Maybe you got a couple of duds.
Here's the deal, and here's why I'm willing to state the the home inspection report has "evolved" into a negotiation "tool" vs. a tool for finding undisclosed /material/ issues with a property.
If a buyer gets a 100+ page "report" of "deficiencies" - forwards that list of "deficiencies" to the seller & the seller replies to the buyer with "nope, not fixing any of this crap" - then an appraiser goes through finding no /material/ defects & valuing the property /above/ the comparable properties in condition - how did the inspector's report "accurately" depict the condition of the property?
It's one thing if all the "deficiencies" are corrected, or half of them, or even 25% of them..
But if the "standard" buyer will /accept/ the home with 95%+ of the identified "defects" going unrepaired - you're no longer creating a product designed to "protect the buyer" from getting bit by an undisclosed defect, you're creating a product designed to beat down a seller's price, regardless of the properties /actual/ condition.
In other words, you're creating a negotiation tool instead of a buyer-protection tool. Further, the very nature of the report will be skewed in such a way that sellers with well-maintained, rehabbed & remodeled homes will be negatively affected in /greater/ proportion than those that run their properties into the ground. By their very nature, those sellers aren't going to fix anything anyway.
There's nothing legally wrong with creating a "tool" like that, unless you misuse it & mischaracterize it as a "good faith effort to protect buyers" - when it's actually a tool used to buy well-maintained houses for the same price as dumps. By attempting to make a biased, non-expert opinion into a disclosable "fact", you're trying to blackmail sellers into meeting your price, "or we'll tell future buyers your house is a dump" - when everyone involved knows it isn't.
Zippyman, I've got to agree with most of your statements about inspectors and the whole inspection process. After going through 16-18 home sales and purchases I think I've run into ONE inspector that actually had trade experience and knew what they were talking about.
Speaking with many realtors as well as sellers it's become common knowledge that inspectors will find things wrong in order to justify their fee and make the buyer think they are competent. If they came back and said "all in all there's nothing really wrong" I don't think anyone would believe them nor do I think the report buyer would be happy/willing to pay the fee.
My best example of a ASHI/CABO certified MORON was an inspector who wrote up how outlet covers were loose and had to be tightened but totally missed that the stove vent terminated in the attic instead of routing steam,grease and fumes outside the house. He also missed the roof sheeting was toast, due to constant moisture exposure from the hood vent pumping into the attic.
He wrote up the wood floor just inside the front door being water damaged AND that the front door needed a new door seal. What he missed was the steel front door was "racked" or bent and that there was a 1/2 inch gap between it and the frame which allowed the outside to come inside. No seal would have fixed that, it required a total door/frame replacement.
He wrote up missing window cranks on casement windows but missed 4 blown window seals.
When we ended up in court with him his answer to the whole thing was "well, you only paid $275 for the inspection (the going rate at the the time) to which I replied "so, if I had paid more I would have gotten a correct one"?
He wasn't happy after paying $7500 to me to fix what he missed.
That was just the worst one, they usually vary from completely nit picking stupidity to just mildly annoying fee justification.
Nowadays I just leave a couple of things I know will catch the attention of most inspectors and are easy/cheap to fix so they have something to talk about...
LOL
"...Inspectors find things wrong in order to justify their fee and make the buyer think they are competent."
And, in the same post disparaging an inspector who missed stuff.
It is pretty hard for an inspector to catch everything wrong and not find anything wrong.
Oh, he found things wrong. If you actually read what I wrote you'd see it was the inconsequential stuff.
Also, you will notice there were 3 separate paragraphs where I was talking about two separate thoughts. I guess I could have put them in 3 different posts. Darn me for saving some time...
Oh, he found things wrong. If you actually read what I wrote you'd see it was the inconsequential stuff.
Also, you will notice there were 3 separate paragraphs where I was talking about two separate thoughts. I guess I could have put them in 3 different posts. Darn me for saving some time...
What you are missing is that your "inconsequential stuff" is exactly the stuff that another customer may well want to have noticed and cited.
Yes, it seems like there were omissions, but that doesn't mean he should have failed to cite anything.
Whether you consider something to be important or inconsequential is not relevant to the fact that the inspector may be required to answer for any omission.
What you are missing is that your "inconsequential stuff" is exactly the stuff that another customer may well want to have noticed and cited.
Yes, it seems like there were omissions, but that doesn't mean he should have failed to cite anything.
Whether you consider something to be important or inconsequential is not relevant to the fact that the inspector may be required to answer for any omission.
Fill in the blanks ---- this should be super, super easy.....
"When my buyer gets an inspection report, the average report has _________ deficiencies"
" we typically ask for ___________ deficiencies to be corrected"
"Of the deficiencies that /aren't/ corrected by the seller, the buyer corrects _______ % of them before moving in, because they fear for their lives, or the house may fall down if they don't correct them".
The actual number of repairs generated by the inspection findings tells the tale of the true /purpose/ of the report.
I truly doubt any inspector /ever/ has been hung by thumbscrews, sued out of business & run out of town on a rail for failing to note a toilet-brush stain in a bathroom cabinet.
Fill in the blanks ---- this should be super, super easy.....
"When my buyer gets an inspection report, the average report has _________ deficiencies"
" we typically ask for ___________ deficiencies to be corrected"
"Of the deficiencies that /aren't/ corrected by the seller, the buyer corrects _______ % of them before moving in, because they fear for their lives, or the house may fall down if they don't correct them".
The actual number of repairs generated by the inspection findings tells the tale of the true /purpose/ of the report.
I truly doubt any inspector /ever/ has been hung by thumbscrews, sued out of business & run out of town on a rail for failing to note a toilet-brush stain in a bathroom cabinet.
After one gains a little experience dealing with the public, and with home inspectors, one might learn that different people have different levels of concern, very different levels of knowledge of home construction and maintenance and materiality of defects.
One might learn what makes the inspectors phone ring after hours.
One might learn what blows deals up, and sometimes that is triggered by truly picayune stuff.
It is just a matter of paying attention to people and their concerns.
I had a loose toilet seat written up on a listing once. Unlicensed plumber that I am, I fixed it for my seller.
Last edited by MikeJaquish; 04-20-2017 at 04:38 AM..
There you go again--doing work that you're not licensed to do! Don't you feel that you're jeopardizing your real estate license??
Broad shoulders, Man. I got me some broad shoulders. Bring it on.
I also guaran-dang-tee you.... The next guy never got that seat off with bare hands...
Broad shoulders, Man. I got me some broad shoulders. Bring it on.
I also guaran-dang-tee you.... The next guy never got that seat off with bare hands...
Yep. I'm sure that he used gloves.
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