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Old 10-07-2017, 09:11 AM
 
37,315 posts, read 59,533,131 times
Reputation: 25335

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We have two homes--one in TX where we are now and planned to stay until November when we would go to house in FL
Our daughter lives next door to our FL house
She has friends who have wanted to sell their house for several years but because of its location and what they paid that has been difficult to do
She called several weeks ago and said they might have found a buyer and wanted to know if they/the friends could stay at OUR FL house if they were to close so they had time to find/move into a house themselves
My husband said yes--without really discussing it with me---making me the bad guy if I tried to back out

Well the deal is going through--they apparently will close on their house and have found a house to buy
Our daughter called yesterday to say they would probably move into OUR house this next weekend and have their stuff in storage until early November after they close on new house
She even offered to let them stay longer if they needed to paint or something in the new house--without checking with us...

I am getting a little ticked off-
This couple that we have known for several years--as friends of our daughter/SIL--are not really friends of OURS....they don't spend any time with us when we see them at our daughter's house on special occasions like our grandson's birthday---we don't even really like the husband who can be loud and "life of the party" guy...
THEY have not called us to say thank you--to ask/offer to pay rent--and I doubt they will
My husband won't be the one to call them either or set parameters--
He won't want to make our daughter uncomfortable

Our daughter is the one who has put herself in the middle but I know her
She won't complain to them about what is doing on there
Our SIL's mother and sisters have stayed there and another set of their friends stayed there for a weekend several years ago---
HIS mother is very careful--they broke a broom and she replaced it--wrote us very nice thank up notes on the different occasions and always cleans up---we never mind if they stay there

But these people I just am uncomfortable--
They have two kids of their own and a niece who basically lives with them
Think they have a cat--

What type of communication should we be expecting to take place
What type of ground rules for a stay of a month or so???
We planned to return to FL after the 10th of November but didn't have specific date set
I don't want to change MY plans because they have problems closing their deal or want to do something like paint prior to moving in...
But I don't think WE should be the one to initiate the conversation
Am I wrong/heavy handed to think the people borrowing OUR house should be the ones to make first contact???
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:24 AM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
22,618 posts, read 36,545,747 times
Reputation: 19829
If you're old enough to have a child who owns her own house, you're old enough to be OK being "the bad guy". I'd put whatever parameters you want on this and it should start with "this situation is starting to spin out of control and make me uncomfortable so here's what's gonna happen".

Do not get hung up on who makes first contact. That's just not germane to the situation and that thought process keeps people from being proactive. These people are poor decision makers and obviously want to make their problems everyone else's. I have a family member like this. NO HESITATION to ask anyone for anything when they create problems for themselves. There's an issue that needs to be dealt with, so deal with it, and fast - November will be here before you know it.

Now would be a good time to have a chat with your adult daughter about how the ability to say NO without guilt is a great life skill to have.
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,750,191 times
Reputation: 21845
Since they are homeowners only waiting for their new house to close (and personal friends of your daughter who lives next door), it probably shouldn't be a problem. The fact that they have a gap between the sale of their house and purchase of a new one is not unusual, nor does it make they 'bad decision makers.' It also sounds like your daughter offered the house, not that they specifically asked first (??)

Give them the specific date in November when you will need the home. Since their things are in storage, moving out should not be an issue. The key is to make it clear up front that you expect them to work around your date, not vice versa (regardless of painting desires, closing details, etc).

Also, let them know if you have specific concerns regarding pets, breakables, personal items or other - and that they should expect to pay for utilities during the month they are there. Since your daughter has put herself in the middle, let her know that you expect her to make sure your wishes are followed. What's done is done. It's great that you are able to help these people out and there's really no need (or point) to make a bigger issue out it than necessary.

Last edited by jghorton; 10-07-2017 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,663 posts, read 10,678,943 times
Reputation: 6944
Family dynamics aside, my advice is to formalize whatever arrangement you have decided upon. Even if it is a simple sheet of paper saying they have the use of your place up until a specific date and they are responsible for any damage they cause or their pet causes. You might also have them agree to have the place professionally cleaned within a few days of leaving. If that feels like it is not enough, get a Florida approved basic lease. The point is this: if the situation turns ugly, you need something that protects you and, if they are offended by it, you probably don't want them there in the first place. In my view, people who say they are responsible people are more than willing to backup their claim in writing.

Even if you let them stay for free, I think you are becoming a landlord in the eyes of the law which means you are opening yourself up to all the Florida Tenant-Landlord laws, not to mention any liability issues that might arise. I'm not an attorney, though, so don't take this as legal advice. I know most people would say it's no big deal and I am needlessly complicating a simple arrangement...and I would say that, in most cases, everyone walks away happy and appreciative. However, pretending that these arrangements don't sometimes turn into something else (something bad) is probably foolish and shortsighted, I think. Considering that these are not friends of yours, I see even more reason for some sort of written agreement.

Look at it this way...being a nice person and offering someone a place to stay doesn't exempt you from the legal complexities that could potentially be imposed on you. What if they have a problem that delays them from moving indefinitely? Who is responsible for fixing a clogged toilet or if there is a leak? What if there's a trip and fall? What if the cat scratches the furniture or shreds the drapes? The possibilities are endless.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,146 posts, read 33,244,266 times
Reputation: 35433
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
We have two homes--one in TX where we are now and planned to stay until November when we would go to house in FL
Our daughter lives next door to our FL house
She has friends who have wanted to sell their house for several years but because of its location and what they paid that has been difficult to do
She called several weeks ago and said they might have found a buyer and wanted to know if they/the friends could stay at OUR FL house if they were to close so they had time to find/move into a house themselves
My husband said yes--without really discussing it with me---making me the bad guy if I tried to back out

Well the deal is going through--they apparently will close on their house and have found a house to buy
Our daughter called yesterday to say they would probably move into OUR house this next weekend and have their stuff in storage until early November after they close on new house
She even offered to let them stay longer if they needed to paint or something in the new house--without checking with us...

I am getting a little ticked off-
This couple that we have known for several years--as friends of our daughter/SIL--are not really friends of OURS....they don't spend any time with us when we see them at our daughter's house on special occasions like our grandson's birthday---we don't even really like the husband who can be loud and "life of the party" guy...
THEY have not called us to say thank you--to ask/offer to pay rent--and I doubt they will
My husband won't be the one to call them either or set parameters--
He won't want to make our daughter uncomfortable

Our daughter is the one who has put herself in the middle but I know her
She won't complain to them about what is doing on there
Our SIL's mother and sisters have stayed there and another set of their friends stayed there for a weekend several years ago---
HIS mother is very careful--they broke a broom and she replaced it--wrote us very nice thank up notes on the different occasions and always cleans up---we never mind if they stay there

But these people I just am uncomfortable--
They have two kids of their own and a niece who basically lives with them
Think they have a cat--

What type of communication should we be expecting to take place
What type of ground rules for a stay of a month or so???
We planned to return to FL after the 10th of November but didn't have specific date set
I don't want to change MY plans because they have problems closing their deal or want to do something like paint prior to moving in...
But I don't think WE should be the one to initiate the conversation
Am I wrong/heavy handed to think the people borrowing OUR house should be the ones to make first contact???
Hell no you're not wrong. They better not paint. WTF? It's not their house. The total expectation of moving in not contacting you speaks volumes. Run away from this arrangement.


First of all I wouldn't do it. I understand that your daughter is trying to help. But she volunteered you. Personally I would say I'm sorry but my husband spoke without consulting with me. I am not comfortable doing this at all. I'm sorry but you'll have to find different accommodations. There IS NO WAY I would agree to this arrangement. I rather have them pissed at me than to f myself in such way. Make me the bad guy fine, I don't care. When the arrangement goes sour you'll be the one holding the bag.

But

If you are going to do it I would GET A SIGNED LEASE AGREEMENT at the minimum. Even if they live there for free (why would you agree to that is beyond me) get a signed agreement. Month to month only. It will spell out what is expected from everyone. Because as soon as they move in YOU are now a landlord and fall under every law you must follow for your state. Even if it's free rent you are their landlord.

Have you thought what happens and who pays
If they break something
If they leave the house filthy
The utilities
Maintenance
City fines
Your home insurance is now a coverage issue as it's a homeowners policy but it's used as a rental. You need rental insurance policy or you risk not having coverage if something happens, like a fire someone trips and falls and sues. And I guarantee a insurance company will weasel out if paying if they can
(You still have have maintenance, utilities, taxes and liabilities for the property etc to pay)
What if they dont find a house for 3-6-12 months. Hell theire getting FREE living quarters. They won't be in a hurry. People get complacent pretty quickly. If you do this I would charge rent for sure. N fact it would be something to bring up. Hey you wanted to move in let's talk about rent payment. They just sold a house? They can pay rent like everyone else.

I would run away from this deal as fast as I could. You can hate me all you want. Back out now while you can. Stop worrying about being made "the bad guy". You're out of your mind if you go through with this with no agreement, rules and money paid to you.

Last edited by Electrician4you; 10-07-2017 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,500 posts, read 40,211,096 times
Reputation: 17374
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
Family dynamics aside, my advice is to formalize whatever arrangement you have decided upon. Even if it is a simple sheet of paper saying they have the use of your place up until a specific date and they are responsible for any damage they cause or their pet causes. You might also have them agree to have the place professionally cleaned within a few days of leaving. If that feels like it is not enough, get a Florida approved basic lease. The point is this: if the situation turns ugly, you need something that protects you and, if they are offended by it, you probably don't want them there in the first place. In my view, people who say they are responsible people are more than willing to backup their claim in writing.

Even if you let them stay for free, I think you are becoming a landlord in the eyes of the law which means you are opening yourself up to all the Florida Tenant-Landlord laws, not to mention any liability issues that might arise. I'm not an attorney, though, so don't take this as legal advice. I know most people would say it's no big deal and I am needlessly complicating a simple arrangement...and I would say that, in most cases, everyone walks away happy and appreciative. However, pretending that these arrangements don't sometimes turn into something else (something bad) is probably foolish and shortsighted, I think. Considering that these are not friends of yours, I see even more reason for some sort of written agreement.

Look at it this way...being a nice person and offering someone a place to stay doesn't exempt you from the legal complexities that could potentially be imposed on you. What if they have a problem that delays them from moving indefinitely? Who is responsible for fixing a clogged toilet or if there is a leak? What if there's a trip and fall? What if the cat scratches the furniture or shreds the drapes? The possibilities are endless.
Totally agree. They need a security deposit and a lease agreement.
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:48 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
32,502 posts, read 47,489,547 times
Reputation: 77792
You might want to sit that daughter down and explain to her that it is not OK for her to give away stuff that doesn't belong to her.

Right now, she gets all the credit for her generosity and you are going to get all the damage and the eviction if the friends are lying about getting out when their escrow closes--- if they even have an escrow.
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Old 10-07-2017, 01:03 PM
 
574 posts, read 654,835 times
Reputation: 1605
There are many cities in Florida that do not allow short term rentals (less than 6 months). Maybe you can tell your daughter that short term rentals are not allowed and you will not allow them to stay without a formal agreement, as it affects your mortgage and insurance. You need assurances that everything will be as you left it.


Or, if allowed in the city, sign a lease at 4 times the typical monthly rent to reflect short term rental rates.


I would take door #3 and have your daughter explain to them that you are coming sooner than expected and cannot accommodate the request.


This is a bad situation. You need to let your daughter know that this arrangement is not to your liking and do not offer your home again in the future.
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:14 PM
 
2,212 posts, read 1,066,291 times
Reputation: 1381
So sorry that hubby said yes and then left the dirty work to you.

Here's my suggestion.

Get a month to month lease form all filled in along with your rules and send to your daughter who then has to get the couple to sign and send back to you. Have them pay rent. They aren't family so no free ride.

Any damage done have hubby fix.

Daughter and hubby made the deal so why not make them take some responsibility for their actions.
No need to shoulder it all by yourself.
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Old 10-07-2017, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,583 posts, read 6,674,344 times
Reputation: 14786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
Hell no you're not wrong. They better not paint. WTF? It's not their house. The total expectation of moving in not contacting you speaks volumes. Run away from this arrangement.


First of all I wouldn't do it. I understand that your daughter is trying to help. But she volunteered you. Personally I would say I'm sorry but my husband spoke without consulting with me. I am not comfortable doing this at all. I'm sorry but you'll have to find different accommodations. There IS NO WAY I would agree to this arrangement. I rather have them pissed at me than to f myself in such way. Make me the bad guy fine, I don't care. When the arrangement goes sour you'll be the one holding the bag.

But

If you are going to do it I would GET A SIGNED LEASE AGREEMENT at the minimum. Even if they live there for free (why would you agree to that is beyond me) get a signed agreement. Month to month only. It will spell out what is expected from everyone. Because as soon as they move in YOU are now a landlord and fall under every law you must follow for your state. Even if it's free rent you are their landlord.

Have you thought what happens and who pays
If they break something
If they leave the house filthy
The utilities
Maintenance
City fines
Your home insurance is now a coverage issue as it's a homeowners policy but it's used as a rental. You need rental insurance policy or you risk not having coverage if something happens, like a fire someone trips and falls and sues. And I guarantee a insurance company will weasel out if paying if they can
(You still have have maintenance, utilities, taxes and liabilities for the property etc to pay)
What if they dont find a house for 3-6-12 months. Hell theire getting FREE living quarters. They won't be in a hurry. People get complacent pretty quickly. If you do this I would charge rent for sure. N fact it would be something to bring up. Hey you wanted to move in let's talk about rent payment. They just sold a house? They can pay rent like everyone else.

I would run away from this deal as fast as I could. You can hate me all you want. Back out now while you can. Stop worrying about being made "the bad guy". You're out of your mind if you go through with this with no agreement, rules and money paid to you.


This 100% correct! If something happens to your home, your insurance could refuse to pay as it's not owner occupied! If you allow them to stay there then you need a lease agreement so you can evict them if they refuse to leave AND you would need a landlord policy to cover your home and belongings which is NOT cheap! Also, the fact that you are not friends with these people and don't know them well is also a problem! What if their deal falls through and then they have nowhere to go and won't move out?

If it was me I'd put my foot down and say NO!! I'm assuming your husband didn't realize all the legal ramifications of this when he said yes. You need to tell him!If your daughter is that worried about them then she can allow them to stay with her, otherwise, sorry not your problem!
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