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That would be quite a stretch, but I see where you're going with that line of thought. Generally, I have NO idea what my client's faith preferences are. I did have one client who had to stop in each house and pray for about five minutes while she asked God if this was the house He wanted her to have. I was sorely tempted to run upstairs and yell, "YES! THIS IS THE HOUSE!!!" in a deep voice
I don't do that, but I have seen other broker/owners think that way. Some people are just overly cautious.
1. The murder is not a required disclosure in NC. That standard varies widely depending on the state.
BUT, if you ask, no one can lie. And, if this was an NC Buyer's agent who knew, and knew you would have an issue, that agent would have dropped the ball significantly.
2. Well..... YUCK. Jeeze...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfn111
Murder is a required disclosure in MN. Natural death or suicide, in the property, is not a required disclosure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForLoveOnly
What if a client straight out ask you?
To Mike's point, talk about disclosure is meaningless unless you know who we are talking about. The seller should disclose what's legally required to disclose. They are under no obligation to start talking about negative things with the home unless it's required by law. I think most get this. And if the seller's agent started to say negative things about my home that aren't required to disclose, I would think that this is malpractice - i.e. he's not looking out for my interests very well.
But with a buyer's agent, they have an obligation to look after the interests of the buyer which (I think) means that they need to inform the buyer of any relevant info that they are aware of.
I strongly disagree with the "knew you would have an issue" part. Obviously the buyer's agent can't point every little thing out to their buyer but I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a buyer would not care if someone was murdered in the house (just an example but it could be anything significant) unless they specifically told you so. Most buyers don't tell their buyer's agent that they do not want a house where someone was murdered. So most buyer's agents will not KNOW if they would have an issue. Mike's statement above means that if there is an absence of knowing that the buyer does not want a murder house, then it's OK not to inform the buyer. Perhaps it's just sloppy language but that's what it means. I think this is an important distinction for everyone to understand and be clear about because it's at the heart of what a consumer can expect of his buyer's agent in terms of informing him of potential issues. I.e. if the buyer's agent does not specifically know that the buyer will have an issue with something, he does not have to inform the buyer (assuming it's not a legally required disclosure item).
Is Mike's statement wrong (or sloppy) or is this really how a buyer's agent works? I think this needs clarification as it's confusing and personally, I did not think buyer's agents worked like this. I.e. i would expect them to inform me of something major like that even if they didn't KNOW that i would have an issue with it.
I found the original ESL reference, and laughed. Again. Have you figured out how to get CD to pay you by the word?
Keep on twisting and parsing, and creating essays out of singular phrases culled from agents' posts.
But do please take the time to understand the difference between "criminal", "unlawful",and "violations". Some matters fall to licensure boards, some to civil court, and then some are criminal in nature.
To attempt to contribute to this line of discussion regarding disclosure ...
I can inform you that in our state, we have had in the past a 3 page Inspection & Services Disclosure Form that is frequently used and covers a wide-range of 23 topics that are considered of material importance - lead paint, radon, aircraft noise, sex offender registry, etc. My brokerage still uses it. I'm here to report that MURDER or CRIME committed on a particular premises are not on the list.
I found the original ESL reference, and laughed. Again. Have you figured out how to get CD to pay you by the word?
Keep on twisting and parsing, and creating essays out of singular phrases culled from agents' posts.
But do please take the time to understand the difference between "criminal", "unlawful",and "violations". Some matters fall to licensure boards, some to civil court, and then some are criminal in nature.
To attempt to contribute to this line of discussion regarding disclosure ...
I can inform you that in our state, we have had in the past a 3 page Inspection & Services Disclosure Form that is frequently used and covers a wide-range of 23 topics that are considered of material importance - lead paint, radon, aircraft noise, sex offender registry, etc. My brokerage still uses it. I'm here to report that MURDER or CRIME committed on a particular premises are not on the list.
You're free to posit why.
Read my post again. I'm not asking about legal disclosure requirements and that is very clear. I'm asking about a BUYERS AGENT'S duty to the BUYER to protect his interests by informing him of significant things that are not required by disclosure laws (a murder or other crime might be one example. That it was a brothel might be another. just examples).
So to be even more clear. There are things that he's required to disclose per the disclosure laws (e.g. it has a bad foundation). And there are things that he cannot legally tell the buyer (e.g. the race of the people next door). And then there is everything else that is significant. The everything else is what i'm asking about.
Maybe I use many words because everything has to be spoon fed like this. And you still can't comprehend.
I can inform you that in our state, we have had in the past a 3 page Inspection & Services Disclosure Form that is frequently used and covers a wide-range of 23 topics that are considered of material importance - lead paint, radon, aircraft noise, sex offender registry, etc. My brokerage still uses it. I'm here to report that MURDER or CRIME committed on a particular premises are not on the list.
You're free to posit why.
Those things I always chuckle at. I've sold 5 homes that I never lived in, yet still had to fill them out - and there was nowhere to note that fact. It's just another consumer protection run amok that doesn't actually address the real issue.
I'm checking "unknown to me" on the form, and the agent is too afraid to say anything remotely negative - as one word could be misconstrued by a delusional buyer and turn into a crap show that eats at their time. In the end, obvious stuff gets missed and the buyer blames everyone else.
Truthfully, we should blame the buyers that created this monster.
Read my post again. I'm not asking about legal disclosure requirements and that is very clear. I'm asking about a BUYERS AGENT'S duty to the BUYER to protect his interests by informing him of significant things that are not required by disclosure laws (a murder or other crime might be one example. That it was a brothel might be another. just examples).
So to be even more clear. There are things that he's required to disclose per the disclosure laws (e.g. it has a bad foundation). And there are things that he cannot legally tell the buyer (e.g. the race of the people next door). And then there is everything else that is significant. The everything else is what i'm asking about.
Maybe I use many words because everything has to be spoon fed like this. And you still can't comprehend.
You're cherry picking disclosure. You've repeatedly attacked agents' for their ethics that don't align with your undisclosed pipe dream - what's to stop you from doing that in real life if they were to disclose something that wasn't required by law and you magically find offense in their statement?
Has it occurred to you that nearly every one of your posts, you come back behind and clarify or say "you didn't read it right"? What's the one common theme?
I'll sanitize this little anecdote for the filters:
Honey - if you run into a jackwagon in the morning, you ran into a jackwagon. Don't let it ruin your day. If you keep running into jackwagons, you're the jackwagon.
JB, I would tell a client if I knew a murder had been committed there.... the same way I mention anything else I actually KNOW about the property that I think might be important to our buyer.
So would most agents I know.
I don't think any of us mind having real conversations with our clients about ALL these considerations, good and bad about the house, the property, the neighborhood, the town. I hope most of us do the best we can to cover all those bases, without overstepping lines that have been put down EVERYWHERE, which we shouldn't ever cross.
Thankfully the client isn't usually trying to pick apart every statement looking for some weakness in our phrasing or word choices in one sentence or another that they can twist around and "get" us with like you are, because it really gets in the way of good information flow.
Realtors can be like used car salesmen without the cars.....or they can be superstars.
I prefer full time realtors, not waiters/waitresses or soccer moms doing it as a side career. I think websites such as zillow/realtor dot com have taken a lot of the leg work away from realtors because they show recent sales, tons of pics/videos.
The commission still bothers me. 5-6% of a gross sale is crazy especially in a dwindling market. My accountant doesn't charge me 5% of my gross income, my lawn guy doesn't charge me 5% of my lot value to cut the grass. Car salesman doesn't add his 5% to the cost of the car. Yacht salesman do get 10% so I guess that really is a kick in the gut but since I don't have a yacht I don't need to worry about that one!
In years past the % payout probably paid for the hours spent looking at all of the houses but with the internet I suspect that has cut the "browsing time" down significantly. I have also witnessed the selling realtor simply trying to get a contract at any price because her % is free money regardless of what the owner gets (net). I saw this one lady list for 649K, then on the first open house mention the owner will take 570K for a quick sale. I was stunned that she was so quick to give away 80K of the owners money!
A home nearby just listed for 50 million......neighbor who is a very part time realtor mentions if she had that listing she could make a million dollars in one sale. She has no buyers at that price point, she has zero experience in that high end market and barely answers her phone for a 200K buyer yet she is fantasizing about the 1mm commission? BTW the house that is listed is valued by the county for 19mm. I'd love to be the buyers broker and ask how they plan to get an appraisal that is over 2.5X the appraised value. The highest sale in that area was 32mm in the last real estate boom 12-14 yrs ago and that guy will be lucky to ever see that price again. My guess: Selling realtor stroked the clients ego with the high list price to secure the listing regardless of what the market value actually is.....just like on "Million Dollar Listing" tv show. Next scene, well we got an offer of 22 million and we should really consider it.......commercial break........seller but you said 50 million........realtor, late on his car/mtg payment.....yeah but we need to take this offer because after one open house we only had one offer!
With the 5-6% the agent rarely gets the whole commission . They are usually sharing it with a buyers agent. There are ways to list your home yourself in the MLS for minimal or flat costs but most homeowners don’t want to do all the work necessary .
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That does sound weird about the agent saying for a quick sale they will take 570k for a quick sale . Was the home overpriced at $649k? The homeowner still would have to approve the $570k though they aren’t forced to sell at that price . They have a fiduciary duty to get the highest price for their client.
County appraisals and actual market appraisals can often be very different . Those $50 million homes are usually bought by billionaires or someone worth $500 million or so . It’s possible they might be buying in cash.
Or putting a huge down payment like 50%.
Its 100% true. We come from NY and there is no sex offender database like here in Florida which makes it easy to look those things up. We also had no idea there were so many Sex offenders here in Florida.
Sadly, they are everywhere these days, tons in AZ too.
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