Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hello - looking to buy my first home here in New Jersey. As part of the contract, the seller wants to put this clause:
"The buyer shall not request any cosmetic repairs or replacement or upgrade of any system that is in working order but beyond its current economic life"
I can understand the cosmetic but what are your thoughts on the replacements of systems working but beyond economic life? is that clause fairly standard?
not knowing the NJ contract, it's hard for us to be precise/absolutely correct, but ...
The Seller has at least one system - the roof, the water heater, the AC or the furnace, that your inspector will observe is "beyond its useful life". That might be a 21 year old roof, for example. If the roof isn't leaking, flashings and boots OK, no sign of unusual wear, etc - that roof is fine. Visually, you and your agent should already have an idea whether that roof is old and you'll be replacing it in the next several years.
The Seller is attempting to say "If it ain't broke I ain't fixing it, and you are OK with that." It happens very often that Buyers belief/expectation is when that "beyond its useful life" is noted, that entitles them to get a new roof or whatever, at the Seller's expense. That's absolutely NOT true.
Yes - As Bo said... The seller wants you to agree that they're not going to replace an old furnace, water heater, roof, etc... as long as it's still working. And they're not going to give you new counter tops just because the old ones are dated.
I would consider that what you see, walking through, is what you get. They're not interested in doing a lot... or perhaps any... work on the place. Can you be happy with that? That's the question.
The seller likely has stuff that is past its expected life. Water heater, HVAC and roof are the most common. A water heater is $500 - 1500 so not that big of a deal.
However, the HVAC and roof could be several thousands of dollars (a roof couple be well over $10K).
The attitude of "its its working OK today there isn't a problem", is short sighted at best. If you were buying a car and the tires had very little tread left, you would likely want to adjust the purchase price to reflect you having to buy tires in a short time. If the same type of car was for sale for the same price, but had better tires, it would be a no-brainer on which one to buy (all other things being equal). The same logic should apply to houses as well.
An out of date HVAC system is going to cost you more to operate (lower SEER ratings). If its a gas system, there could be cracks in the heat exchanger that could be putting carbon monoxide into the house (common in older gas furnaces).
An older roof may not be leaking, but the shingles get weaker with time and a high wind episode could tear shingles off much easier. A new roof is typically a very large investment.
If the price of the house reflects the older systems that will need to be replaced in the near future, then their request is not out of line. However, if the price of the home is in line with other similar homes that have been upgraded (new HVAC, WH, roof), then you are going to pay more for the house, since you will be incurring those costs in the near future.
In my area (Southern State) a water heater last 10-12 years, HVAC last about 12-14 for a heat pump, and 14-16 for a gas system. A 20 year roof lasts about 16, a 30 year about 25, and a 40 year roof about 30. Your mileage may vary.
I take people's stories about their WH lasting 75 years, or the HVAC that is still going strong at 95 with a grain of salt, and just assume they are in a case of denial. While I don't doubt there are some appliances still operating at that age, I suspect there are underlying issues that just have not surfaced.
It's easy to ask questions before putting in your offer and then do a little digging.
The condo I bought was built in 2003.
Carpet was old (beige, worn in spots, etc). Kitchen appliances original.
My concern was about hvac/water heater. Dates on those units showed as 2015
Now I also looked at the same floor plan unit in another building with updated stuff.
It was all fairly new but not what I would buy/install given the choice. It was also higher priced than the first because of the updated stuff.
I ended up buying the first one with dated appliances/old carpet.
Inspection showed everything in working order.
The carpet is going first thing. The rest..replace over time with appliances of my choice.
OP. To answer your question, that is NOT a standard clause. I understand the reason for it; like others have mentioned, it is more or less an "as is, where is" requirement. I personally would not agree to it. I would expect an inspection be performed by a professional that I accompany, and whatever is found is negotiable.
If the seller is insistent on that clause, maybe he would agree to a one year home warranty covering all major appliances and systems as a compromise. I think they cost on the order of $600 to $700 for one year. This might be acceptable to you IF the seller is also required to submit a disclosure report/statement that lists all known defects, issues, problems, and repairs.
As a seller, I like that clause! We had a couple ask us to upgrade our air conditioning units as part of the requested repairs after the inspection. Nope... not doing it.
Hello - looking to buy my first home here in New Jersey. As part of the contract, the seller wants to put this clause:
"The buyer shall not request any cosmetic repairs or replacement or upgrade of any system that is in working order but beyond its current economic life"
I can understand the cosmetic but what are your thoughts on the replacements of systems working but beyond economic life? is that clause fairly standard?
It sounds like the last time they sold their buyer was a Diva about some of those things, and they're being proactive about it now. Not what most would call "Standard" but understandable.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
