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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
I don't know about Mike, but I no longer have any idea what you're talking about. I read the post about your prior inspection, and couldn't tell if you thought it was a fair inspection or a bad one.
I wish I knew! But you're just not making yourself clear. Please enlighten me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish
LOL
You may have a better idea what he is ranting about than he does!
Well, I've been trying to explain to you and Mike (and others) for several pages now about the difference between "standards of practice" compliance and "building code" compliance and apparently you two are included in the group that doesn't know the difference between the two.
Mike even went so far as to say that I have no idea what I'm talking about. You say that you didn't understand my "word salad" of a few pages back. So I think that any further attempts to explain to you and Mike what the difference is would simply fall on deaf ears.
I hate to use an old expression here because it isn't very polite, but it may be very applicable, so I'll use it anyway. "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
You might consider doing some research on this matter to become better informed because my attempts to explain it through examples have sailed right over your head.
Well, I've been trying to explain to you and Mike (and others) for several pages now about the difference between "standards of practice" compliance and "building code" compliance and apparently you two are included in the group that doesn't know the difference between the two.
Mike even went so far as to say that I have no idea what I'm talking about. You say that you didn't understand my "word salad" of a few pages back. So I think that any further attempts to explain to you and Mike what the difference is would simply fall on deaf ears.
I hate to use an old expression here because it isn't very polite, but it may be very applicable, so I'll use it anyway. "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."
You might consider doing some research on this matter to become better informed because my attempts to explain it through examples have sailed right over your head.
LOL - Given the number of people asking similar questions of you on the thread, I'd think again about which of us appears to need to do some more research.
You haven't given any examples of why standards of practice or building code compliance is a pressing home inspections issue for you.
There's only a few circumstances when it ever comes up: Most typically badly done remodels and unpermitted additions. Which was yours? Tell us about your situation, and your inspection.
I'll be charitable and admit that I have seen inspection reports that:
1) are like 90% disclaimers so much as to question their very own conclusions/recommendations
2) don't sufficiently differentiate major code/permit violations from maintenance issues
In the hands of an inexperienced buyer, or someone with little knowledge of home systems, these sorts of reports could certainly be misinterpreted and misused.
But this doesn't really seem like what the OP is trying to get at?
LOL - Given the number of people asking similar questions of you on the thread, I'd think again about which of us appears to need to do some more research.
You haven't given any examples of why standards of practice or building code compliance is a pressing home inspections issue for you.
There's only a few circumstances when it ever comes up: Most typically badly done remodels and unpermitted additions. Which was yours? Tell us about your situation, and your inspection.
That only tells me that nearly everyone who has responded to this thread is in the same boat as you and MIKE... i.e, they and you don't understand what is being discussed.
Why is "standards of practice" compliance an important issue (rhetorical question)? Well, it's important because I've got an entire inspection report that is based solely on "standards of practice" for residential housing in the State of Tennessee. The report specifically says that it "does NOT include building code compliance or other regulatory compliance issues." So if you don't understand the difference, then you don't understand the discussion. And I can assure you that the house is not a shack or some badly done remodel or unpermitted addition. It is well ABOVE the average home in the area. In some areas of the country, it would likely sell for $800K to $1MM.
I can further assure you that when the typical buyer would see this report, it would likely scare the bejeebers out of them, when in reality all it is saying is that numerous items are not in keeping with the "Standards of Practice". Now are you beginning to understand why I'm not enamored with housing inspection reports?
That only tells me that nearly everyone who has responded to this thread is in the same boat as you and MIKE... i.e, they and you don't understand what is being discussed.
Right! We don't understand you. I think we do understand inspections and inspection reports... Quite well! It's just your take on them I'm having trouble understanding.
Quote:
Why is "standards of practice" compliance an important issue (rhetorical question)? Well, it's important because I've got an entire inspection report that is based solely on "standards of practice" for residential housing in the State of Tennessee. The report specifically says that it "does NOT include building code compliance or other regulatory compliance issues." So if you don't understand the difference, then you don't understand the discussion. And I can assure you that the house is not a shack or some badly done remodel or unpermitted addition. It is well ABOVE the average home in the area. In some areas of the country, it would likely sell for $800K to $1MM.
I can further assure you that when the typical buyer would see this report, it would likely scare the bejeebers out of them, when in reality all it is saying is that numerous items are not in keeping with the "Standards of Practice". Now are you beginning to understand why I'm not enamored with housing inspection reports?
No... I'm not beginning to understand. WHAT DOES IT SAY? If you're ticked off that some inspector pointed out a bunch of items in the report that you don't think are important, you're going to have to post it. If you want us to have an opinion about your particular report or the standards he used to judge your house against, you're going to have to post it.
If you want to talk about how faulty and unfair reports are, then post some concrete examples we can agree or not agree on. Until then, I think I'm done trying to figure out your indecipherable rants.
I have really tried!
But I do hope you have a nice day
Last edited by Diana Holbrook; 01-17-2020 at 12:51 PM..
Thank you to everyone! I do appreciate all the comments even though I disagree with most of them.
from the first post, I wondered why you seemed to be asking a question, but were only looking for affirmation. When people with LOTS of experience dealing with buyers, sellers, and home inspections try to help, you dismiss us.
I certainly agree - as have the other pros (Realtors or not) - that an inspection has never been intended as leverage to renegotiate a deal. It is an opportunity to discover serious (safety) repairs that are needed, and to point out to buyers other things that may not be "right", but are of less concern.
With good agents and a good inspector, the repair negotiation is usually pretty simple. The inspectors I use do the standard report as meets NAHI guidelines. But they will also talk with the Buyers and point out items, and tell them "this is big", "I'm not sure about this structural issue, you really should get an engineer" or "I have to point this out, but it's not that big/something that is supposed to be this way now but was anotherr way when the house was built".
There are certainly times and markets where the requested repairs favor the buyers, and vice versa. But these are negotiations - which side has the stronger hand?
I have told my buyer clients - "Let's ask for everything. We're the only Buyer they have." and this tack has worked. And there are certainly times where I've explained to the Buyers "you really shouldn't ask for that minor item, it's not a new house." I have consistently found that when both parties (seller and agent, buyer and agent) act in good faith and communication, then both parties are happy.
An inspection is some protection against liability for a buyer who discovers something much later and tries to come after the seller. The defense is (a) seller didn't know about the problem, and (b) the buyer brought in his inspector so had every opportunity to uncover the problem, but didn't.
That only tells me that nearly everyone who has responded to this thread is in the same boat as you and MIKE... i.e, they and you don't understand what is being discussed.
Well, you know the old saying about when everyone else is wrong and you're not....
That only tells me that nearly everyone who has responded to this thread is in the same boat as you and MIKE... i.e, they and you don't understand what is being discussed.
Why is "standards of practice" compliance an important issue (rhetorical question)? Well, it's important because I've got an entire inspection report that is based solely on "standards of practice" for residential housing in the State of Tennessee. The report specifically says that it "does NOT include building code compliance or other regulatory compliance issues." So if you don't understand the difference, then you don't understand the discussion. And I can assure you that the house is not a shack or some badly done remodel or unpermitted addition. It is well ABOVE the average home in the area. In some areas of the country, it would likely sell for $800K to $1MM.
I can further assure you that when the typical buyer would see this report, it would likely scare the bejeebers out of them, when in reality all it is saying is that numerous items are not in keeping with the "Standards of Practice". Now are you beginning to understand why I'm not enamored with housing inspection reports?
A disclaimer of ensuring code compliance is standard here and in most places.
What Inspectors find is virtually all busted stuff. Windows that won't open. Sockets and switches that do not work. A GFI that won't trip or reset. A pool heater whose inside consists of a pile of rust. An AC unit that does not turn on. Another that is in fact lying in pieces in a closet. A sprinkler run leaking a torrent into a bed. The list of 42 items was important in the decision to purchase the house. Basically settled for $5,000 and getting all the AC systems operative. The buyer then used the list to schedule immediate maintenance for the major items.
This was unusual for the number of items and their severity. I would think it was mostly because the home had not been occupied or properly maintained for over a year.
We did not and do not get into technical arguments about spacing of joists or trusses. Might occasionally come across a busted or improperly installed truss but it is very rare. It is also a cut and dried defect to be dealt with.
So the Inspector task is simply to identify defects. Dealing with them is up to the buyer and his agent with advice from the Inspector.
In general I do not know that I would agree to represent a buyer who declined to do an inspection. Seemly needed for the good of all the participants.
As soon as inspectors take some responsibility for things they've missed--rather than hide behind a "we're not responsible for things we've missed" contract--I'll start taking them a bit more seriously.
I realize that what I'm saying is never going to happen, but I think it needs to be said. People who provide services with no sort of accountability should be taken with a grain of salt.
It sounds as if you have been wronged by an Inspector and are painting all Inspectors witha very broad brush. Unfortunately there are many Inspectors who should not be in the business but there are many more that are very good at what they do. Would you care to share your experience?
As for the accountability aspect there really is no contract that protects any service provider from gross negligence. All a consumer needs to do is obtain proper counsel and the problem can typically be solved easier than you may think.
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We don't understand you. I think we do understand inspections and inspection reports... Quite well! It's just your take on them I'm having trouble understanding. 
