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Both sides who are claiming the issue is clear as day and settled law and no one ever has a cause of action over it are wrong. There are still fights about it. Because.... people.
The lesson isn't to argue it definitively here. The lesson is to make it clear what you want in your own home, before it comes to that. Communication solves it better than all the arguing about whether it's screwed or wired or velcroed on.
Both sides who are claiming the issue is clear as day and settled law and no one ever has a cause of action over it are wrong. There are still fights about it. Because.... people.
The lesson isn't to argue it definitively here. The lesson is to make it clear what you want in your own home, before it comes to that. Communication solves it better than all the arguing about whether it's screwed or wired or velcroed on.
And a LACK of communication is very much a problem here - as is the lack of disclosure and potential problems that come up. Had I never dealt with "Grill Guy", I wouldn't have even thought about all of this being an issue in a real estate transaction. I mean, he wanted to nuke a $550K deal on a $300 grill, and went apocalyptic when he was informed that he'd be in default and likely lose his $5K in earnest money.
The point remains, contract is contract - stick to the contract and everyone wins.
I would consider it a fixture that should have been excluded in the contract documents if the sellers want to keep it.
And, if this is the only issue on walkthrough, I would say, "They sell them every day. You can get one for <$200."
I.e., while it is a minor irritant, I wouldn't make an issue of it.
I hate to say it, but that's exceedingly weak and faulty logic.
I can buy a toilet at Home Depot for $90. I can buy a kitchen faucet for $49. I can install the faucet in a matter of minutes; faster than I could install and setup a Ring Doorbell. I can probably do the same with the toilet.
But if you went through the walk-through, and saw that the kitchen sink was missing, would you really tell your client "You can buy one for $49, they sell them every day?" What about if the nice Delta sink with a pull down sprayer was replaced with a $29 Home Depot basic facuet? Would you say, "Hey, its a faucet!"
If you saw the Toto Ecomax ($400) toilet had been replaced with a Glacier Bay $90 toilet (or a hole in the floor) would you just shrug?
I don't think you would. I think you'd be raising cane with the seller's agent.
Ring is a device, not a fixture, it's not a necessity. You wouldn't remove a garbage disposal so to equate it to a device is crazy.
My wife told me of her intentions to keep our old Kitchen Faucet to install when we sell this house. She got an upgraded one for Christmas our first year in the house (a much nicer one.)
She also said to me, "It's going to be such a pain when we move and you have to remove those sliding racks on the lower cabinets." They were affixed to the cabinets. She boguht them after we moved in.
Our house doesn't have a Garbage disposal (septic system,) but if she added one that wasn't there when we bought it, you can bet she'd intend to take it with her.
I had to educate her on the subject, and tell her that I wasn't storing an old faucet, and I'm not going to empty our cabinets and take the drawers out, and I'm not reinstalling the old faucet, if/when we sell.
People like my wife are the reason that contracts spell this stuff out.
No it was broken and it's on you to prove that it wasn't.
on your second point it has nothing to do with a video camera and has nothing to do with paying for someone else's wifi or storage contract for an item that was paid off.
Why you choose to argue with the multitude of real estate pros who live this every day is beyond me.
You're selling your house. it has a Ring doorbell. Perhaps a Buyer depresses the button, and it lights up and you hear the ring. Whether the owner answers or not, they'd have every reason to believe it was working.
Nevermind the fact you admitted that you would lie, which is a material misrepresentation.
On the 2nd point, I've already said I don't have a Ring and thus obviously not familiar with storage contracts, etc. My point was to flesh out the idea of fixtures, especially those considered "security" and to lett people know that (I assume generally, but definitely in NC) - if you got that equipment "free" from the manufacturer, but haven't fulfilled your contact obligation ... then the Seller is technically responsible for paying the remaining contract.
I hate to say it, but that's exceedingly weak and faulty logic.
I can buy a toilet at Home Depot for $90. I can buy a kitchen faucet for $49. I can install the faucet in a matter of minutes; faster than I could install and setup a Ring Doorbell. I can probably do the same with the toilet.
But if you went through the walk-through, and saw that the kitchen sink was missing, would you really tell your client "You can buy one for $49, they sell them every day?" What about if the nice Delta sink with a pull down sprayer was replaced with a $29 Home Depot basic facuet? Would you say, "Hey, its a faucet!"
If you saw the Toto Ecomax ($400) toilet had been replaced with a Glacier Bay $90 toilet (or a hole in the floor) would you just shrug?
I don't think you would. I think you'd be raising cane with the seller's agent.
So why is an upgraded doorbell different?
what MikeJ was saying (I believe) is that if you're all ready for your new home otherwise, he would try to remind you that going ballistic over $200 isn't worth it. And has since noted that it might make a great housewarming gift, from a relative or the agent.
As stated, in NC, there is such a responsibility. And the standard NCAR listing agreement and contract clearly include cameras, doorbells, and access codes under "Fixtures."
I think it is a local thing, and even at that, in legal situations many people default to, "By Gawd, I want what I want and I don't care what I agreed to!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
Actually, El Chingaso, unless the window treatments fail to work without a password, I think LifeIsGood made a good point and we need to understand and take into account how these things work.
The Ring hardware is technically a fixture, but without the password, it's useless. Is there a duty to turn over passwords?
All they need to do is relinquish control of the hardware; not the account. I use MY app on MY phone on MY wifi account.
In that way I don't think it's any different than tearing out a security system. You wouldn't do that but you would cancel the service piece of it.
I hate to say it, but that's exceedingly weak and faulty logic.
I can buy a toilet at Home Depot for $90. I can buy a kitchen faucet for $49. I can install the faucet in a matter of minutes; faster than I could install and setup a Ring Doorbell. I can probably do the same with the toilet.
But if you went through the walk-through, and saw that the kitchen sink was missing, would you really tell your client "You can buy one for $49, they sell them every day?" What about if the nice Delta sink with a pull down sprayer was replaced with a $29 Home Depot basic facuet? Would you say, "Hey, its a faucet!"
If you saw the Toto Ecomax ($400) toilet had been replaced with a Glacier Bay $90 toilet (or a hole in the floor) would you just shrug?
I don't think you would. I think you'd be raising cane with the seller's agent.
So why is an upgraded doorbell different?
I would not hesitate for a nanosecond to comp my buyer a $200 doorbell on a $1 million house.
Gotta remember, it appears that these sellers are just not very classy and squabbling over lunch money with that sort in the greater scheme of things is a portal to banality.
The scariest folks to deal with are those who rank "principle" over common sense and materiality.
I was at closing and a childish squabble over $60 arose. I just happened to have about $70 in my pocket, and popped three twenties on the table and said, "Let's roll." No problem. Life is short.
I hate to say it, but that's exceedingly weak and faulty logic.
I can buy a toilet at Home Depot for $90. ?
Your argument is weak, no one takes a toilet and no one would expect anyone to take a toilet, no one would miss that a toilet is missing. and finally you can poop on a Ring carera.
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Communication solves it better than all the arguing about whether it's screwed or wired or velcroed on.
