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Flooring not perfectly flat. Laminates are too tight so its almost like an air pouch is underneath. So many houses with cheap gray woodprint laminate, gray walls, over washed carpet.
The thing about "poor workmanship" is that its not necessarily going to be readily noticeable.
Maybe you will see (on a new flip) drywall screws bulging out, bad paint covering at the corners, "wavy" walls due to bad mud/compound work, tiles not set perfectly (could be off 1/8 of an inch)...
Most of the time, a hack job on a flip, they will make it look good for presentation but within 3-5 years, it start breaking down.. thats my definition of "poor workmanship".
About cheap components.... I own rental units and my tenants are always breaking stuff so when i replace, im always at Home Depot getting low-mid grade replacements (light fixtures, sink faucets, ceiling fans, floor tiles, sinks, vanities, stoves etc...) i dont go for the cheapest because those are the worst but something mid or just under in price. So recently, ive been apartment hunting with a young family member and hes looking for a starter apartment. Of course, everything is builders grade (cheap) and typically the things I buy but he's so impressed with it, I just shake my head... SO yes, its just being familiar with the items that you know its cheap. Of course, if you see something thats really nice, im sure you can tell the difference too.
That counter look like my kitchen counter when we bought, it was at least 25 years old but was perfect. When i finally demo'ed it, i realized that the cabinets were custom, and that everything was so solid and tight, it probably would of lasted another 25 years. So taht's a case of good quality material, just outdated (personal preference).
I think the places you can really tell will be the home owner DIY flips, ive seen some really really sketchy things that even the kid questioned. Professional work will look up to par for the untrained in most cases, you just have to expect low grade peripherals if thats your market.
Here's a couple of specific examples,
Bathroom replaced, contractor supplied parts, bathtub surround had ceramic 4x4 tiles. Looks perfect for the cost.
3 years later, tiles fall off due to improper adhesion of tiles (tiles not back buttered), but water has been penetrating for at least 6 months prior. When removing tiles to correct, noticed that they did not use correct backing (NOT cement board, not green board) but regular sheetrock. Also, they used the wrong caulking, instead of 25 year mold free silicone, they used some cheaper stuff that had mold buildup in 6 months. correct parts would of added less than $40 to the job but dont know why they skimped out.
New wood flooring installed for a room and the installer did not properly transition to the carpet, he used a baseplate set next to the old transition piece... :shakes head:
I was hoping for something that I could fix up. Instead almost every starter home was bought and quickly flipped that I looked at.
Don't mind inexpensive items, but knowing that the carpeting came off the giant roll over at HD and everything is painted off white all while trying to charge $40,000 more than what the property was sold for a month earlier got irritating after awhile.
I do appreciate a stellar flip. Used to live in a neighborhood of historic houses. The amount of work that went in to update 75+ year old plumbing and electrical, then blending new technology inside an historic frame and making it all blend together was pretty awesome at times.
It was the houses that were putting lipstick on a pig where often the poor workmanship shown through.
I was hoping for something that I could fix up. Instead almost every starter home was bought and quickly flipped that I looked at.
Don't mind inexpensive items, but knowing that the carpeting came off the giant roll over at HD and everything is painted off white all while trying to charge $40,000 more than what the property was sold for a month earlier got irritating after awhile.
I do appreciate a stellar flip. Used to live in a neighborhood of historic houses. The amount of work that went in to update 75+ year old plumbing and electrical, then blending new technology inside an historic frame and making it all blend together was pretty awesome at times.
It was the houses that were putting lipstick on a pig where often the poor workmanship shown through.
Well, if you wanted a house you could fix up then you should have looked at those.
A flipper goes in and buys at way under market and brings the house up to meet current expectations for that particular area If high end finishes aren't the standard at that price point they don't go in. Same thing if you over improve your house above the neighborhood.
The historic renovations are a whole other thing and one that typically requires deep pockets and a concrete plan. The problem still remains sometimes in the blending of old and new that destroys the authenticity of the house.
I'm curious as to why anyone is hung up on lights? They are so easily replaced if you like another style. Why would a cheap light reflect badly on a house.
For me there are a couple of reasons I focus on lights. If I'm buying a $1 million house, (top tier in my market) I don't want some $10 fixture the contractor picked up at at a big box store. I expect the quality, and maybe some uniqueness, that often comes with higher priced fixtures to match the the price level of the house. Those cheap fixtures also would make me wonder what else the contractor cheaped out on doing.
The one thing I hate is replacing good quality items, for newer substandard items. Things that were metal, are now plastic.
I replaced a perfect, Kohler Executive chef sink, for some stainless steel, thin apartment crap sink. Just as an example. The price to make "other's" happy...
We won't even talk about the shoddy cabinets/counters...
Look for amateur finishes. Unlevel floors. Bad grout, caulking. Bad tile job. Loose carpets. Sloppy paint. Cheap lights, appliances, fans. Look under sinks at the plumbing job. Buy one of those cheap outlet testers that you just have to plug into an outlet and it has lights that'll show you if it's working - and more importantly - if it's grounded (think poor electrical work). Look into the fuse box - are there open slots or does the panel look overloaded? Check basements and foundation for signs of water issues (which a flipper would be more likely to cover up than fix). Look in vents, if you can, to see if they are full of construction dust.
Great examples!
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv4horses
Flooring not perfectly flat. Laminates are too tight so its almost like an air pouch is underneath. So many houses with cheap gray woodprint laminate, gray walls, over washed carpet.
What do you mean by "laminates too tight" ?
What's wrong with grey, grey, and overwashed carpet?
It that just a style choice or sign of cheap work?
What exactly is overwashed carpet? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by krs8808
The thing about "poor workmanship" is that its not necessarily going to be readily noticeable.
Maybe you will see (on a new flip) drywall screws bulging out, bad paint covering at the corners, "wavy" walls due to bad mud/compound work, tiles not set perfectly (could be off 1/8 of an inch)...
Most of the time, a hack job on a flip, they will make it look good for presentation but within 3-5 years, it start breaking down.. thats my definition of "poor workmanship".
About cheap components.... I own rental units and my tenants are always breaking stuff so when i replace, im always at Home Depot getting low-mid grade replacements (light fixtures, sink faucets, ceiling fans, floor tiles, sinks, vanities, stoves etc...) i dont go for the cheapest because those are the worst but something mid or just under in price. So recently, ive been apartment hunting with a young family member and hes looking for a starter apartment. Of course, everything is builders grade (cheap) and typically the things I buy but he's so impressed with it, I just shake my head... SO yes, its just being familiar with the items that you know its cheap. Of course, if you see something thats really nice, im sure you can tell the difference too.
I think the places you can really tell will be the home owner DIY flips, ive seen some really really sketchy things that even the kid questioned. Professional work will look up to par for the untrained in most cases, you just have to expect low grade peripherals if thats your market.
If the young family member like Home Depot fixtures, is that bad?
Is this a snob taste thing or a sign of poor quality and workmanship?
I have a 20 year old Home Depot kitchen and bathroom, and I think it looks nice and is still in perfect condition.
Good point about DIY quality work. That is a sign of poor unqualified work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krs8808
Here's a couple of specific examples,
Bathroom replaced, contractor supplied parts, bathtub surround had ceramic 4x4 tiles. Looks perfect for the cost.
3 years later, tiles fall off due to improper adhesion of tiles (tiles not back buttered), but water has been penetrating for at least 6 months prior. When removing tiles to correct, noticed that they did not use correct backing (NOT cement board, not green board) but regular sheetrock. Also, they used the wrong caulking, instead of 25 year mold free silicone, they used some cheaper stuff that had mold buildup in 6 months. correct parts would of added less than $40 to the job but dont know why they skimped out.
New wood flooring installed for a room and the installer did not properly transition to the carpet, he used a baseplate set next to the old transition piece... :shakes head:
Short of doing a demo before buying, was there any way for even a pro to have known the bathroom was built incorrectly?
What does this mean? Do you have a photo?
"baseplate set next to the old transition piece"
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmi66
Don't mind inexpensive items, but knowing that the carpeting came off the giant roll over at HD and everything is painted off white all while trying to charge $40,000 more than what the property was sold for a month earlier got irritating after awhile.
Is giant roll of HD carpet considered bad? Doesn't ALL carpet come from a large roll ?
Mouldings that don't meet in the corners, loose doorknobs, counters that move when you lean on them, pendant lights that hang unevenly, etc. Have seen all of this and more, and in houses touted as "the builder owns this". Okey dokey!
Inattention to detail is a sign. Things like holes that aren't/can't be covered by an outlet plate or light fixture. Straight lines on trim, wood worker, moldings etc. Do doors shut correctly on cabinets and room doorways. Same for windows. Windows that are jammed in stress the frame and wood which cause poor function or cracks/warping on window sill for example. Check faucets are they secured and/or are there leaks underneath.
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