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Hello all. Looking around here and this seems like the most appropriate forum for this. I am not looking for or expecting legal advice, just some words of wisdom from people that have dealt with dishonest and inept HOAs.
The title is not a joke. The woman that moved in above me 4 years ago has been causing excessive noise since nearly the day she moved in. She is also on the HOA board herself (as a pawn), and friends with the President. The entire HOA board is female and I am a male. She is a professional dance instructor for a living. We live in a building with thin floors so nearly everything is audible. Over the years, I have placed over 10 isolated complaints with the HOA regarding noise from above - everything from her admitting to "dancing" at 6am in the room above my bedroom to screaming matches with her boyfriend. There is a pattern with noise subsiding for several months then picking back up again like nothing ever changed. The HOA's tune has always been "we will talk to her, but there is really nothing we can do about it."
Back in September, I was woken up at 6:30am by what sounded like furniture moving around in the room above mine. I was a bit angry and went up to see what the commotion was about. I was told by her boyfriend who answered the door that he had been disassembling their bed and apologized for the noise. I yelled at them and might of used a bad word or two, told them it was unacceptable, and issued another complaint with the HOA. Once again, the HOA told me there was nothing that could be done on their end, in part because this individual told them it was after 8am when he started on the bed, which was a blatant lie.
I made some reference to the HOA that I might need to pursue legal action if they refuse to get involved. Shortly after this, I was made aware that the woman above me had initiated legal action against me for harassment, yelling at them the morning the bed was dissembled and calling her a b*tch in an email. I was never served and nothing ever substantiated from that. And yes, all I did was yell at them from the hallway and call her a bad name. Seemed to be a direct retaliation for my complaint.
The HOA then revised some of their CCRs around such issues to incorporate Internal Dispute Resolution and Alternate Dispute Resolutions as mediation steps before litigation can be filed for general complaints (this is CA). As noise continued, I asked for Internal Dispute Resolution in December. The HOA delayed every step along the way and I was finally given the meeting exactly 30 days after asking for it (the limit, by law). In the meeting, she admitted to teaching dance class on the weekend in her living room. This raised some eyebrows even among the other board members. The guy we pay to serve as property manager then suggested everything would be okay if she just added some padding to the floor to absorb the noise of people dancing. The meeting summary that was sent out by the HOA afterward was extremely deceptive, dishonest and portrayed me in a bad light - not an accurate representation of what was said in that meeting.
To me, it seems ridiculous that an HOA would even accept the notion of a resident teaching a dance class in her unit, running her business, with an individual living underneath, pads or no pads. Am I crazy on that? I am positive it would not be accepted in other apartments I have lived in.
Also, today I received an Internal Dispute Resolution request from the HOA from her for yelling at them and calling her a b*tch back in September. A very obvious retaliation for my meeting request. I have had no interaction with either of them since the previous meeting. Apparently I am not required to reply or attend, which I won't. I believe her threats regarding my reaction to them back in September hold no legal merit and are frivolous at best.
Some side notes - I have gathered that this woman is a Daddy's princess. She is incredibly entitled and appears to have some family money. Also, this is not the only issue I have had with this HOA in regards to complaints to them.
Last edited by cbluciano; 02-10-2021 at 01:04 AM..
As an HOA board member for many years, I sympathize with you. You're fighting an uphill battle as you already know, since there appears to be, based on your description, some collusion between the board and this resident.
That being said, you can prevail in this situation, but it's going to take some work on your part.
The key is documentation.
You probably have a smartphone. Use it. When she is making noise, record it. That will provide a time and date stamp which you can use to substantiate your claims if this is happening outside of acceptable hours.
Another approach would be to address her running a business in her unit. Review your CCRs to see if there are restrictions on such activities. I suspect there are. She's admitted doing so, which would put her in violation of the CCRs if that's the case. With a number of people coming and going I would expect it wouldn't be difficult to document.
When you file or make your complaint, prepare it in advance in writing with supporting documentation. Be direct and to the point, don't let your emotions get involved or make unsubstantiated claims - stick to the facts. If you acted inappropriately, accept blame and apologize.
Since you don't appear to be getting much traction in this with the board, even if you have to use mediation, you can employ an attorney. Yes, this will cost some money, but when people lawyer up a board will take notice and straighten out in most situations. The board should have legal representation as well, which if they do, could confer with your attorney and arrive at a resolution. They're far more likely to fall in line if their attorney is telling them what to do than if the board is just chatting amongst themselves and coming up with a resolution.
HOA boards can be tough, as they often possess dynamics that work against the average member. The boards I served on tried to be "nice" boards, but when people were defiant or uncooperative, we would become very dictatorial. It wasn't pleasant, but some owners are simply jerks, to put it bluntly, and there's no other way to deal with them.
You seem to need to go beyond the board...at least for some enhancement to your case. To beef up your case, you might also see if you can find any advertisements this woman upstairs may have online, in print. Any "one free class" offers touting her business name she may have printed for for, say, the hoa bulletin board, etc. So there is proof of her business....but no license if that is indeed the case.
Combine that with whatever the laws may be regarding this in your town, city, which sometimes have valid effect and which oftentimes people forget about when enmeshed in the rather insular hoa world.
Every state is different of course, but in CO, all emails between board members are open to unit owners. It seems CA has similar laws; ask to see all the emails and then when discussed at board meetings be there. Making any decisions in secret behind closed doors might be illegal with certain exceptions listed in the law (such as active litigation - possible litigation is not active litigation).
Its been a while since I was on an HOA board, but here is a hypothetical: if they knowingly violated the law and you sue and seek damages, their D&O insurance might not cover damages you might recover from them since the D&O doesn't cover negligence.
Conducting a business in a residential zoned area could also be a city violation.
This is what the OP should be focusing on.
Yes, the noise is annoying but there’s only so much anyone can do about daily living noise. When the fighting starts, call the police. When the screening and yelling starts, call the police. When the loud music and obvious dance class starts, record it and file a complaint with the HOA, call the police and contact the city. After the police come out x amount of times, they are going to starter issuing citations
Moving furniture isn’t an HOA complaint or police compliant.. even at 6 am unless the bylaws state otherwise.
As an HOA board member for many years, I sympathize with you. You're fighting an uphill battle as you already know, since there appears to be, based on your description, some collusion between the board and this resident.
That being said, you can prevail in this situation, but it's going to take some work on your part.
The key is documentation.
You probably have a smartphone. Use it. When she is making noise, record it. That will provide a time and date stamp which you can use to substantiate your claims if this is happening outside of acceptable hours.
Another approach would be to address her running a business in her unit. Review your CCRs to see if there are restrictions on such activities. I suspect there are. She's admitted doing so, which would put her in violation of the CCRs if that's the case. With a number of people coming and going I would expect it wouldn't be difficult to document.
When you file or make your complaint, prepare it in advance in writing with supporting documentation. Be direct and to the point, don't let your emotions get involved or make unsubstantiated claims - stick to the facts. If you acted inappropriately, accept blame and apologize.
Since you don't appear to be getting much traction in this with the board, even if you have to use mediation, you can employ an attorney. Yes, this will cost some money, but when people lawyer up a board will take notice and straighten out in most situations. The board should have legal representation as well, which if they do, could confer with your attorney and arrive at a resolution. They're far more likely to fall in line if their attorney is telling them what to do than if the board is just chatting amongst themselves and coming up with a resolution.
HOA boards can be tough, as they often possess dynamics that work against the average member. The boards I served on tried to be "nice" boards, but when people were defiant or uncooperative, we would become very dictatorial. It wasn't pleasant, but some owners are simply jerks, to put it bluntly, and there's no other way to deal with them.
Good luck!
RM
Thanks. Yes, some very blatant collusion going on here which makes me not want to involve the HOA in any mediation, especially to facilitate it. I have 4+ years and over 20 emails to the board about this situation. I heard emails are often not accepted as evidence in court though - any truth to that? I also sense they are trying to bully me because I have not hired a lawyer yet. They are extremely expensive where I live. The HOA has inferred to me they have already received legal advice that they are being guided by in their decisions now - very curious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petsandgardens
You seem to need to go beyond the board...at least for some enhancement to your case. To beef up your case, you might also see if you can find any advertisements this woman upstairs may have online, in print. Any "one free class" offers touting her business name she may have printed for for, say, the hoa bulletin board, etc. So there is proof of her business....but no license if that is indeed the case.
Combine that with whatever the laws may be regarding this in your town, city, which sometimes have valid effect and which oftentimes people forget about when enmeshed in the rather insular hoa world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Search Underway
The HOA documents should have language that can be used to settle your dispute. I had to use my HOA documents and previous knowledge of previous behavior to settle an HOA dispute.
I picked up a dog that needed a home and my HOA complaint was about his size. Nothing in the HOA documents about dog size and our previous president owned a dog that weighed similar to mine. His was shaped differently, but weighed about the same. Everyone knew his dog so it was easy to validate. We did have to have a lawyer draft updated language, but I was not impacted since it was already done before. Moving forward dogs larger than 70 lbs need to be approved by the board. Sold the condo recently for a nice profit and never have to deal with those people again. Ours were clear about not running a business out of your property. Zoning is also a problem. Can’t run a business if it’s not zoned properly.
Yes, good idea. Several others have suggested this is not legal to be running a business out of her condo. It is a "work from home" era though.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Even if the city zoning allows home based business, most will have specific requirements. I ran my business from home for several years, and I had to get a city business license, in addition to the state resale license, and follow strict rules, covering hours, noise, parking of clients, and deliveries. In most places it's easy to search a website for business licenses, and I'd be willing to get they don't have one. Here is an example in our state:
Thanks. Yes, some very blatant collusion going on here which makes me not want to involve the HOA in any mediation, especially to facilitate it. I have 4+ years and over 20 emails to the board about this situation. I heard emails are often not accepted as evidence in court though - any truth to that? I also sense they are trying to bully me because I have not hired a lawyer yet. They are extremely expensive where I live. The HOA has inferred to me they have already received legal advice that they are being guided by in their decisions now - very curious.
Yes, good idea. Several others have suggested this is not legal to be running a business out of her condo. It is a "work from home" era though.
This isn’t working from home. This is running a dance school in/out of your home. Does she carry liability insurance in case someone gets hurt in her home or on the property? Probably not.
My last HOA was clear in regards to home based businesses. The business could not cause higher than average foot/motor traffic (clients, vendors, delivery companies) to the unit.
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