U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-04-2021, 09:56 AM
 
Location: NC
7,855 posts, read 10,352,076 times
Reputation: 16647

Advertisements

Don’t know if it helps but in my county all legal docs about the property are available on line using the owners name and a date range. This includes all transfers, including the first to your parents. You might check the registrar of deeds website just to see what’s out there. Of course the title company should be doing that. But maybe if you find that another company has done a title search in the past it will save you money.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-04-2021, 10:21 AM
Status: "Talking to ghosts" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
69,247 posts, read 64,617,792 times
Reputation: 85513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillie767 View Post
The new title company will use the "back title" as a start for their search of title and liens. They accept the back title for prior history. Your telling them that your family has owned the property since 1957 doesn't provide title history. If there has not been a title policy and title search prior upon which the new title company can rely, they will have to start their title search at 1957 and trace title and liens through local, county and state records, increasing their time and expense. Otherwise they cannot guarantee clean, unencumbered title.

They may need your father's death certificate because the house may not have been re-titled on the tax and assessment records after your father died. They may still show both your parents on the tax rolls.
Yes, that does make sense and is pretty much what the lawyer's office said, that the title may still be in both their names. However, I think it's just in my mother's name because my father was exempt from property tax in NJ because he was a 100% DAV and my mother received the benefit as his widow. I think she had to file some sort of paperwork to continue the exemption after he died, IIRC. When I looked up the tax record on the county website (because WE are going to have to pay the taxes at closing from the date of her death to closing date), only her name appears.

I guess what I don't understand about the whole title search bit is that wouldn't this all have been taken care of back when the house was built and just have to be noted again now? What are they looking for, exactly? And YES, doesn't this information already exist in local/county/state records? It's not in some database in this day and age? Since it's public knowledge that the property has not changed hands in 60+ years, what do they think they will find? I know these are probably dumb questions, and that's OK if you think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillie767 View Post
"An unmortared stone wall runs behind the property, common in the NY/NJ area where the Dutch settled. Lots of rocks in the soil from the glaciers."

Yes, I never fully appreciated all the stone walls in New England and the upper mid-Atlantic states until I moved to Florida and realized there are no rocks here. Just sand. All those beautiful rolling hills and curvy roads, surrounded by stone walls, some crumbling, but still discernable. Lovely.
Ten years ago I moved sixty miles south to central NJ, about six miles inland. I went hiking in some of the wooded county parks in the area, and at first I couldn't put my finger on what was different about the landscape here. Then one day it dawned on me--there are no rocks! I mean not NO rocks, but in north Jersey there are rocks EVERYWHERE, and you don't see that here. That's the line, though, the place where the last glaciers ended and as they retreated left the rocks they'd pushed downward.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: //www.city-data.com/terms.html
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2021, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Kansas City North
5,198 posts, read 8,764,134 times
Reputation: 9634
What could they be looking for? Liens filed by contractors who didn’t get paid for their work, unpaid taxes, a judgement from a lawsuit, that 10 foot strip on the side of the yard that was sold to a neighbor, all sorts of stuff. Not saying any apply to you, just in general.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2021, 07:07 AM
Status: "Talking to ghosts" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
69,247 posts, read 64,617,792 times
Reputation: 85513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okey Dokie View Post
What could they be looking for? Liens filed by contractors who didn’t get paid for their work, unpaid taxes, a judgement from a lawsuit, that 10 foot strip on the side of the yard that was sold to a neighbor, all sorts of stuff. Not saying any apply to you, just in general.
Ah, OK. I didn't realize those types of things were part of a title search. Thank you.

Unpaid property taxes do apply, but that's a known factor that we are sorting out already.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: //www.city-data.com/terms.html
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2021, 09:08 PM
 
Location: southwest TN
8,529 posts, read 16,356,255 times
Reputation: 16386
[quote=Mightyqueen801;60968485]
I guess what I don't understand about the whole title search bit is that wouldn't this all have been taken care of back when the house was built and just have to be noted again now? What are they looking for, exactly? And YES, doesn't this information already exist in local/county/state records? It's not in some database in this day and age? Since it's public knowledge that the property has not changed hands in 60+ years, what do they think they will find? I know these are probably dumb questions, and that's OK if you think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Ah, OK. I didn't realize those types of things were part of a title search. Thank you.

Unpaid property taxes do apply, but that's a known factor that we are sorting out already.
Clear title means free of encumbrances of any kind - bankruptcy, mechanics' liens (electricians not paid who files a lien against the property ensuring he gets paid when the house is sold - could be 10 or more years old), neighbor dispute over possession of some/part of the land are only some examples of a "cloud" on a title. As a purchaser (or a mortgagor), not having clear title can pass along those debts to the new owner or have a portion or all of the land/buildings go to a claimant - which is one of the purposes of title insurance - that title insurance company puts its financial backing into resolving any conflict from the time of the new purchase - and/or paying any lien or defending other cloud on the title once the company issues its policy. It's also the reason I always purchase an owner's title policy, not just paying for the bank's title policy.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 08:33 AM
Status: "Talking to ghosts" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
69,247 posts, read 64,617,792 times
Reputation: 85513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I guess what I don't understand about the whole title search bit is that wouldn't this all have been taken care of back when the house was built and just have to be noted again now? What are they looking for, exactly? And YES, doesn't this information already exist in local/county/state records? It's not in some database in this day and age? Since it's public knowledge that the property has not changed hands in 60+ years, what do they think they will find? I know these are probably dumb questions, and that's OK if you think so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Annie View Post
Clear title means free of encumbrances of any kind - bankruptcy, mechanics' liens (electricians not paid who files a lien against the property ensuring he gets paid when the house is sold - could be 10 or more years old), neighbor dispute over possession of some/part of the land are only some examples of a "cloud" on a title. As a purchaser (or a mortgagor), not having clear title can pass along those debts to the new owner or have a portion or all of the land/buildings go to a claimant - which is one of the purposes of title insurance - that title insurance company puts its financial backing into resolving any conflict from the time of the new purchase - and/or paying any lien or defending other cloud on the title once the company issues its policy. It's also the reason I always purchase an owner's title policy, not just paying for the bank's title policy.
OK, thanks. It seems to me that's exactly what a title search company would do, not the executor of an estate, but whatever. Her question is still a little muddy to me, because how would I go about proving that there AREN'T any mechanic's liens, etc., against the house? Or that my parents DIDN'T ever declare bankruptcy?

At any rate, since the two things she specifically mentioned were my father's death certificate (since his name was once on the title) and "any old surveys", I found a 1955 survey of the property showing "the proposed building". (What she actually said was that they "may" require my father's death certificate.)

Since the lawyer sent me this email on Monday and hasn't bothered to get back to me with my questions about what any other back title information she is seeking, I will send those two documents over.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: //www.city-data.com/terms.html

Last edited by Mightyqueen801; Today at 10:06 PM.. Reason: Fixed quote tag
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 06:32 PM
 
Location: southwest TN
8,529 posts, read 16,356,255 times
Reputation: 16386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post

OK, thanks. It seems to me that's exactly what a title search company would do, not the executor of an estate, but whatever. Her question is still a little muddy to me, because how would I go about proving that there AREN'T any mechanic's liens, etc., against the house? Or that my parents DIDN'T ever declare bankruptcy?
YOU do not prove any of that - that's for a title searcher to find or not find. Liens are recorded in the land records as are bankruptcies if they affect the title. A "title company" and a "title SEARCH company" are not the same. A title company is an insurance company. When you purchase a "title policy", that is simply an insurance policy against claims against the title which occurred prior to the purchase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
At any rate, since the two things she specifically mentioned were my father's death certificate (since his name was once on the title) and "any old surveys", I found a 1955 survey of the property showing "the proposed building". (What she actually said was that they "may" require my father's death certificate.)

Since the lawyer sent me this email on Monday and hasn't bothered to get back to me with my questions about what any other back title information she is seeking, I will send those two documents over.
YEP

Last edited by Mightyqueen801; Today at 10:08 PM.. Reason: Fixed quote tags
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 10:07 PM
Status: "Talking to ghosts" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
69,247 posts, read 64,617,792 times
Reputation: 85513
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Annie View Post
YOU do not prove any of that - that's for a title searcher to find or not find. Liens are recorded in the land records as are bankruptcies if they affect the title. A "title company" and a "title SEARCH company" are not the same. A title company is an insurance company. When you purchase a "title policy", that is simply an insurance policy against claims against the title which occurred prior to the purchase.



YEP
Thanks for all the info.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: //www.city-data.com/terms.html
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top