What if your plot of land still technically belongs to a Native American? (mortgage, mortgage)

[00crashtest]

Originally Posted by saibot

Odd that you don't think having a piece of paper means you own anything, but this person shows up with a piece of paper saying your land once belonged to his great-grandparents, and you're happy to go to all the inconvenience of packing up and moving away immediately so he can have it.

Why isn't HIS piece of paper meaningless too?

Hmm.

Yep, this logic makes sense. The reality is, everyone's piece of paper is meaningless, because it is not inherently biological, scientific, or logical, including fiat currency. Heck, even gold is worthless outside of technical purposes and would just be another rare metal like neodymium if we didn't collectively decide to artificially value it so high. We just pretend it has meaning because enough people trust the system to make it work.

[Mistermobile]

Originally Posted by 00crashtest

Say you inherited a family farm/ranch that has been in your family for a few generations. However, that farm/ranch was originally deeded to a Native American family, also for several generations, who was forced off their land because the government ignored their promises. The unfortunate Native Americans were forced off at gunpoint without even undergoing a formal eviction process, so, their eviction was undocumented in government records and they did not receive any compensation.



However, you do not want to sell your farm/ranch because you are emotionally attached to it. One day, a descendent of the persecuted Native American family, who is also emotionally attached to the piece of land, decides to approach you and ask if he can live there again. He has the deed in hand, and his deed is technically still valid because it was not canceled by the government. Will you let his family permanently share the property with you and co-inherit it for future generations of both sides for free, given that he pays his fair share (half) of the property taxes, sort of like a condominium-style agreement or cohabitation agreement?

T... to examine your title and their claim. The admissions you have already made on this forum can hang you.

[mojo101]

arrange a seance with John Wayne,may be he knows

[Marc Paolella]

Originally Posted by 00crashtest

Say you inherited a family farm/ranch that has been in your family for a few generations. However, that farm/ranch was originally deeded to a Native American family, also for several generations, who was forced off their land because the government ignored their promises. The unfortunate Native Americans were forced off at gunpoint without even undergoing a formal eviction process, so, their eviction was undocumented in government records and they did not receive any compensation.



However, you do not want to sell your farm/ranch because you are emotionally attached to it. One day, a descendent of the persecuted Native American family, who is also emotionally attached to the piece of land, decides to approach you and ask if he can live there again. He has the deed in hand, and his deed is technically still valid because it was not canceled by the government. Will you let his family permanently share the property with you and co-inherit it for future generations of both sides for free, given that he pays his fair share (half) of the property taxes, sort of like a condominium-style agreement or cohabitation agreement?

I don’t recognize claims from antiquity. Indians regularly stole each others land, and taking land by force was the way of the world in ancient times. It’s too bad but that’s just the way it was for everyone alive at that time. We are far removed from that time. In today’s world land is exchanged by voluntary trade with compensation. If the person would like to buy my land, I’d listen to his offer and decide. But I owe him nothing. There is no debt, financial, moral, or otherwise.

Also, as an aside, he should earn his own way in today’s world and not try to cash in on his ancestor’s hard work.

Also, I am not fond of the term “native” american, because it is meaningless. I am a “native” american. It also implies others are non-native or something less. I reject that. There are no native americans. Or indigenous people. We are all Africans and everyone being anywhere else is a result of invasion and squatting.

People need to look at the time in which they live and not waste so much time looking back. We don’t get to exist for all that long and spending that time trying to find people to collect from is a fool’s errand.

[K12144]

How large is this plot of land? Is it big enough that someone else could live on it and both would be comfortable? Is the NA owner going to pay half of the taxes and have insurance (inc. liability)? Will you be drawing up a contract, inc. absolving yourself of any liability for anything whatsoever (whether he steps in a gopher hole and breaks his leg, or finds the land he's using is prone to flooding)? How will you feel about any improvements he wants to make? What if you do decide you want to sell later?

Luckily, what we're looking at here is a situation with a piece of land neither party paid for, so neither would "lose" anything by giving up the land, so at least we can take that out of the equation.

Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke

No, if he has a legal deed to the land, you are going to be moving elsewhere.


What a stupid question.

I assume OP also has a legal deed. How it would shake down in court, I don't know.

Originally Posted by 00crashtest

But He's not trying to seize your property though. The descendants of each of you would get to co-inherit the property afterwards. Assuming he's a nice guy, you might enjoy having company all the time, and the specialization in labor of each because everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.

That's assuming you're both the types who will be "working the land" and that each of you will be willing to help the other with the other's "half."

Considering the number of neighbor disputes out there, I'd say your chance of getting along famously and being best friends, vs. hating each other to pieces, is about 50/50.

Originally Posted by 00crashtest

This is a hypothetical question assuming that it is the same piece of land, with the past boundaries the same as the current and that both owners are have similar interests or interests that complement each other, such as one wanting to plant one type of plant that complements the type the other one wants and forms a beautiful ornamental, yet edible garden that both like. And yes, I would be interested in having a Native American brother.

But that's assuming a lot. It's unlikely that reality would turn out to have this many lucky agreements.

Originally Posted by 00crashtest

Wouldn't you or a normal person want your/their life to be as good and perfect as Fantasyland in a children's book though?

Yes, of course-- who wouldn't? But on what planet is that going to happen? It's fun to fantasize about what if I had a rich uncle who left me trillions of dollars so I didn't have to work and could travel the world and my hair wasn't tangly and my teeth were perfectly straight and I could do math well enough to study astrophysics the way I'd love to and my cat didn't shed, but eventually I need to come back to reality. You didn't start this thread as a "let's write a fun fantasy story together" exercise-- you asked what people would do in a hypothetically-real-life situation.

Originally Posted by Marc Paolella

Also, I am not fond of the term “native” american, because it is meaningless. I am a “native” american. It also implies others are non-native or something less. I reject that. There are no native americans. Or indigenous people. We are all Africans and everyone being anywhere else is a result of invasion and squatting.

Well, what would you call them, then? They're certain not from India or "the Indies."

[jiminnm]

Originally Posted by 00crashtest

It's assuming that the Native American wouldn't evict you from their land because you also have a deed, even though it's wrongfully given by the government, as stated in the description of this thread. It's only that you'll share the land from now on and that both of you would have equal rights to the land.

Your post laid out a totally improbable scenario, and the video is not that scenario. Land on a rez is controlled by the tribe. Your rights are rights are the rights they give you.

Your OP asked about an older deed. Indians (which is what they call themselves) generally didn't get deeds, and land on the rez is generally available to all tribal members (often based on matriarchy). I live on land adjoining a Pueblo, and it's land they once considered theirs but much of the land was settled by Spaniards from what is now Mexico. After the Mexican-American War, the US agreed to recognize all Spanish land grants, which meant that the Pueblo lost whatever land was included in land grants.

In other areas of the country, the US removed Indians from their traditional homes and established reservations for them. Their traditional homes were then opened for settlement by whites. Andrew Jackson did actually pay the Chickasaw for the western halves of TN and KY (now know as the Jackson Purchase).

I think you need to understand more of the history before even asking an improbable question.

[jiminnm]

Originally Posted by K12144

Well, what would you call them, then? They're certain not from India or "the Indies."

I call them Indians because that;s what they call themselves.

[NORTY FLATZ]

Originally Posted by K12144

Well, what would you call them, then? They're certain not from India or "the Indies."

Inuit?

[jackmichigan]

Originally Posted by NORTY FLATZ

Inuit?

Inuit is very specific. South of the Inuit territories, they're generally called First Nations people in Canada. Even though "Indian" is a bit inappropriate (given the origins of the name), "Native Americans" also seems a bit odd, since they were here long before this land was known as "America".

[dontaskwhy]

How about indigenous Americans ?? That would be more appropriate. No, it doesn't roll off the tongue easily but is more accurate.