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Totally agree. That's why they didn't disclose it when they should have.
Both the seller and agent are stupid and greedy. Should have been happy with the offer, paid it off when he walked away with the rest of the profit.
I would think it's unfair to lump the agent in there with the seller. Trust me, we agents don't always agree with the decisions our clients make. Our job is to educate and consult, and the clients job is to make decisions. The agent may be greedy and stupid, but there is no evidence of that being the case here. The only thing I think we can hold the sellers agent accountable for is failure to negotiate the lease with the contract of sale.
In addition- you are in a canyon and going to need retaining walls?
Other house updates?
Have you done your research on canyons and it’s implications?
Obviously you have money- why not buy a decent house? Without any headaches.
Have you tried to hire tradesmen lately?
Your costs will double- is the house worth not only your additional cash but your time and heartache too?
After reading all of the posts here, I would walk away from the deal.
If you restructure the deal, you can probably make the $8k not be a gift. You shouldn't be paying that in any case, but the seller thinks they can get over on the buyer. Another reason to walk away.
If you walk away, come back in a few months, and make an offer that's at listing price, using a different buyers agent, once the exclusivity period has ended. If the house is sold, not a big deal, there will be other houses.
MikePRU I agree that disclosure would be nice prior to making an offer. Inspection would be even nicer. However when we started house hunting, we'd call to set up a showing and the first day on the market there were several offers. Over the summer it was the cash buyers outbidding each other. So it seemed like if you saw a house and asked for the disclosure prior to making an offer, you weren't even in the running. Because there are people making offers the day of the showing. In fact, when we went to look at one house earlier this year, you had 15 minutes to see the place and then had to get out. This was due to Covid restrictions we were told. So you had 15 mins to decide if you liked the place. Everything is so rushed and so much pressure.
I don't know what's "typical" or required by law in your area, but where I am you're required by law to receive the disclosure statement prior to making an offer. It makes sense to do it this way because not only does it educate the buyer about the condition of the house but also tends to avoid situations like this. I would be curious if you queried your agent about when you are supposed to receive disclosures what the answer is. Also, we typically have a copy out in the house and/or attach the document to the listing in MLS so people have easy access to it. So that "I was in a rush" is not an excuse for not receiving the disclosure. Again, I have no idea what's typical in your area and it seems you did receive this information well after your offer was made which is unfortunate timing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLonelyGoatherd
And I realize now that going to see this house that has been sitting since May, we took that mentality with us. And we shouldn't have. We should have asked for the disclosure first. But as a buyer, you know that the disclosure and inspection can easily get you out of a deal. So I've often thought it's best for the buyer to give the disclosure prior to accepting an offer. That's what we did when we sold our house.
Our realtor did not even mention that to us so we honestly didn't think of it. But the disclosure is so nebulous anyway regarding the solar that it wouldn't have helped us. The only thing that would have helped us here is 1) our agent warning us to look further into what this lease is or 2) if we had prior knowledge of these bad lease deals.
Sounds like your agent has done you no favors. It's definitely their job to educate you about solar leases and not the other way around. Whether they've encountered it or not is irrelevant, at my brokerage we have a saying . . . you can practice on each other or you can practice on your clients. Basically, this is saying you can either perfect craft in the classroom or you can learn through mistakes. Your agent is practicing on you. Also, if you're walking into an old, stale listing with the same mentality as you would a new, hot listing this is a situation where your agent should be saying to you "whoa! Pump the brakes!!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLonelyGoatherd
From the seller's perspective I would have wanted the whole thing either paid ahead of time or disclosed up front.
But that is a good point about getting disclosure up front. If this falls through we will definitely be doing that next time. Thank you.
Agreed! The most effective way to sell a house is to either . . .
A) Disclose any defects/leases and include any pertinent information in your disclosure (i.e. don't bury your head in the sand and pretend these things don't exist) or
B) Deal with the disclosure item before going to market or plan to deal with it before closing
Either way, it's incredibly clear what's going on who's responsibility it will be to deal with it.
Maddie and Roselvr thank you for the advice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLonelyGoatherd
We are very open to solar but for sure we'd purchase them. And from what we've read, they definitely don't cover you if power goes out unfortunately. We'd need a separate generator for that.
If you're generating more power than you use during the day and you have storage batteries in your home (ex. a Tesla Power Wall) then you'll have power to use at night and also the panels should still generate power in a black out and the batteries should have power to use during a black out as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman
I would think it's unfair to lump the agent in there with the seller. Trust me, we agents don't always agree with the decisions our clients make. Our job is to educate and consult, and the clients job is to make decisions. The agent may be greedy and stupid, but there is no evidence of that being the case here. The only thing I think we can hold the sellers agent accountable for is failure to negotiate the lease with the contract of sale.
Lazy maybe . . . stupid maybe . . . definitely not greedy. If you were greedy this is the wrong way to go about making sure you get your money.
Thank you all again for all of the input. The deal is dead. RIP. Neither side will give. Seller's feel like paying their lease is giving away their panels for free. We just won't put out any money.
We will continue our search after Christmas. We are taking a house hunting break. There is nothing else out there for us and maybe spring will bring a different market. We have no pressure to leave the house we are renting.
I really wonder how many other offers were driven away. Now it makes sense why this house sat all summer in a red hot market where total junk was going the first week on the market.
The big issue is really the sellers aren't super motivated to move. They were planning on leaving the state in a couple of years. My agent thinks they listed the house because the market was so hot but really they aren't motivated to sell. So unless the stars align exactly as they want it, they aren't budging. Waste of time for us, and both agents.
I feel like my agent is annoyed with us for not just taking the deal and paying for the lease. When I feel like she should be more annoyed with the seller's end and herself for not knowing about solar nor being willing to learn.
Mike PRU this is what I found regarding disclosures in our state. They definitely don't have to be given prior to an offer. I honestly didn't think to ask. Next time I will though.
"In California, sellers must provide a Transfer Disclosure Statement (TDS) to any potential buyer whose offer has been accepted. This form asks specific questions about defects or malfunctions the seller may be aware of. It asks about the condition of the roof, the electrical wiring, appliances, smoke detectors and other relevant features of the property. "
Thanks for coming back and giving us the update. Yeah, if you're rejecting a 100k over asking price offer, I would say they definitely didn't want to sell either. They for sure are wasting people's time. And your agent has some nerve about being annoyed.
I think you did the right thing. That house was not meant to be your home. Sometimes the sellers disagree amongst themselves. One of them wants to sell and the other one is making it difficult every step of the way. You never know what's going on there, so the best thing to do is always be ready to walk away.
I would get a new agent when you start to look for a house again.
Thank you all again for all of the input. The deal is dead. RIP. Neither side will give. Seller's feel like paying their lease is giving away their panels for free. We just won't put out any money.
We will continue our search after Christmas. We are taking a house hunting break. There is nothing else out there for us and maybe spring will bring a different market. We have no pressure to leave the house we are renting.
I really wonder how many other offers were driven away. Now it makes sense why this house sat all summer in a red hot market where total junk was going the first week on the market.
The big issue is really the sellers aren't super motivated to move. They were planning on leaving the state in a couple of years. My agent thinks they listed the house because the market was so hot but really they aren't motivated to sell. So unless the stars align exactly as they want it, they aren't budging. Waste of time for us, and both agents.
Sometimes when you lose you really win. I think you did the right thing by sticking to your guns and not offering to pay a dime for the solar panels. This seller is NUTS! You offered $100K over their asking price on a house that no one else even made an offer on and they wouldn't pay off the solar panels for you? That's insane! You were clearly offering WELL more than what the house was worth and who knows if in a couple of years the house will be worth this much still? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLonelyGoatherd
I feel like my agent is annoyed with us for not just taking the deal and paying for the lease. When I feel like she should be more annoyed with the seller's end and herself for not knowing about solar nor being willing to learn.
We're only getting your side of the story, but based on what you've said it doesn't sound like your agent did such a hot job for you and they've now developed a bad attitude because your contract fell apart well . . . it might be a good time to part ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLonelyGoatherd
Mike PRU this is what I found regarding disclosures in our state. They definitely don't have to be given prior to an offer. I honestly didn't think to ask. Next time I will though.
"In California, sellers must provide a Transfer Disclosure Statement (TDS) to any potential buyer whose offer has been accepted. This form asks specific questions about defects or malfunctions the seller may be aware of. It asks about the condition of the roof, the electrical wiring, appliances, smoke detectors and other relevant features of the property. "
Interesting! Getting the disclosure form after you enter into a contract seems a bit backwards to me but . . . it is California and I don't understand a lot of what goes on in that state.
Seriously though, if you're able to get it before you make an offer that's useful information to have.
Thank you all again for all of the input. The deal is dead. RIP. Neither side will give. Seller's feel like paying their lease is giving away their panels for free. We just won't put out any money.
We will continue our search after Christmas. We are taking a house hunting break. There is nothing else out there for us and maybe spring will bring a different market. We have no pressure to leave the house we are renting.
I really wonder how many other offers were driven away. Now it makes sense why this house sat all summer in a red hot market where total junk was going the first week on the market.
The big issue is really the sellers aren't super motivated to move. They were planning on leaving the state in a couple of years. My agent thinks they listed the house because the market was so hot but really they aren't motivated to sell. So unless the stars align exactly as they want it, they aren't budging. Waste of time for us, and both agents.
I feel like my agent is annoyed with us for not just taking the deal and paying for the lease. When I feel like she should be more annoyed with the seller's end and herself for not knowing about solar nor being willing to learn.
Mike PRU this is what I found regarding disclosures in our state. They definitely don't have to be given prior to an offer. I honestly didn't think to ask. Next time I will though.
"In California, sellers must provide a Transfer Disclosure Statement (TDS) to any potential buyer whose offer has been accepted. This form asks specific questions about defects or malfunctions the seller may be aware of. It asks about the condition of the roof, the electrical wiring, appliances, smoke detectors and other relevant features of the property. "
Thanks for coming back to update. You really dodged a bullet. I thought for sure the other day that you weren't gonna kill the deal.
I don't understand how your agent can be mad at you when the sellers didn't want to sell. Did either agent offer any money for the solar lease to help push the deal through?
I don't doubt that you're right why the house was sitting. He probably killed a few deals for the same reason. I wonder when the listing will be pulled.
I think you're wise to give it a break for now. What an ordeal you've been through. I'll be shocked if you don't find a new buyers agent.
The seller is nuts. A 1.7 m deal falls apart because you are 8k apart? After going 100k over ask. Crazy.
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