Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Thanks for sharing. I am sure you've educated many of us. I knew nothing about solar leases.
I tend to agree with another poster that sometimes spouses are not in 100% agreement about a move. There seems something psychological about the lease debacle -- they knew they made a bad deal (if it was a good deal, the disclosure would have been forthcoming) and are trying to make you pay for it. Why should you get stuck holding the bag?
If in three months time, no other buyer fell for it, that would tell me enough.
Good luck to you!
Last edited by Maddie104; 09-09-2021 at 06:33 AM..
Thank you all again for all of the input. The deal is dead. RIP.
That's fantastic news!!
I'm going to check further on the disclosure thing. I am an agent in Orange County, and they are not required to be given prior to an offer being made. It's nice when the sellers do, but usually they have around 7 days (or whatever is specified in the contract) to provide them all. It's even nicer when it's provided in the listing supplements, so that buyers can decide whether to even bother viewing the property. Since you are in LA County, it may be different there... only reason I say that is I met someone recently who moved there and the seller had to disclose prior to any offers being made.
And sadly, where I am, I've seen some offers to go even $300,000 over asking! It's beyond maddening!
I'm going to check further on the disclosure thing. I am an agent in Orange County, and they are not required to be given prior to an offer being made. It's nice when the sellers do, but usually they have around 7 days (or whatever is specified in the contract) to provide them all. It's even nicer when it's provided in the listing supplements, so that buyers can decide whether to even bother viewing the property. Since you are in LA County, it may be different there... only reason I say that is I met someone recently who moved there and the seller had to disclose prior to any offers being made.
And sadly, where I am, I've seen some offers to go even $300,000 over asking! It's beyond maddening!
It is excellent advice! But he won't go for it! They want us to pay that $8,000 of their debt.
These sellers are in total denial of the solar lease shams of the past decade. All they'd have to do is google it. I've made plenty of bad decisions in my life. Just own it and pay for it. I paid for mine. I'm not paying for his.
From what I'm reading it's actually bordering on being illegal what they are doing. I'm not sure though. Not that we'd sue. Just walk away. But from what I read with these leases, at closing they are treated completely separately from the sale of the house. No different than if I bought the house and took over the seller's car lease payments. Separate transactions.
So while a seller can ask the buyer if they want to take over the lease, the buyer can say no. And that should not affect the sale of the house and the accepted offer. Except with us it is affecting it! We are being made to feel like if we don't pay for this lease, the deal is off.
The lawsuits behind these leases is why I'm reading so many agents tell sellers to pay them off before selling or disclose it right up front before an offer is even made. They don't want any drama around these leases. And yet we somehow end up with both seller's and buyer's agent who are acting like it's their first day with this. I know more about solar leases than they do at this point.
ChrisCD, we were duped into making a higher offer because we were told of this sudden offer than came out of the woodwork. These invisible buyers were going to snatch up the house if we didn't give best and final offer. We got snowed on that part, I'll admit. I won't do that again on a house that's been sitting that long.
Here in Tx they show on title as a UCC lien that must be cleared at closing. It can be treated like a payoff, and title will get a payoff on them and pay with sellers proceeds at closing. But it needs to be cleared well in advance if it isnt going to be paid out of seller proceeds (ie title cuts check for mortgsge payoff, and another for solar lien).
MikePRU I agree that disclosure would be nice prior to making an offer. Inspection would be even nicer. However when we started house hunting, we'd call to set up a showing and the first day on the market there were several offers. Over the summer it was the cash buyers outbidding each other. So it seemed like if you saw a house and asked for the disclosure prior to making an offer, you weren't even in the running. Because there are people making offers the day of the showing. In fact, when we went to look at one house earlier this year, you had 15 minutes to see the place and then had to get out. This was due to Covid restrictions we were told. So you had 15 mins to decide if you liked the place. Everything is so rushed and so much pressure.
And I realize now that going to see this house that has been sitting since May, we took that mentality with us. And we shouldn't have. We should have asked for the disclosure first. But as a buyer, you know that the disclosure and inspection can easily get you out of a deal. So I've often thought it's best for the buyer to give the disclosure prior to accepting an offer. That's what we did when we sold our house.
Our realtor did not even mention that to us so we honestly didn't think of it. But the disclosure is so nebulous anyway regarding the solar that it wouldn't have helped us. The only thing that would have helped us here is 1) our agent warning us to look further into what this lease is or 2) if we had prior knowledge of these bad lease deals.
From the seller's perspective I would have wanted the whole thing either paid ahead of time or disclosed up front.
But that is a good point about getting disclosure up front. If this falls through we will definitely be doing that next time. Thank you.
Maddie and Roselvr thank you for the advice!
Roselvr the solar took your bills down that low? This house has less than 6 kw panels and from what I read, they only produce under $2,000 a year in credits. The seller's July credit was $169. They never showed us the winter months. So in this case, the cost of the lease was more per year than the solar is bringing in.
We are very open to solar but for sure we'd purchase them. And from what we've read, they definitely don't cover you if power goes out unfortunately. We'd need a separate generator for that.
I ask listing agents on any homes i am going to show with solar if solar is paid off, will be paid off by seller at closing or if buyer needs to qualify for loan/lease. Buyers are advised of that before we even go look.
Both agents dropped the ball on this.
If listing one with solar i disclose in public remarks if solar lease must be assumed, the payoff and payment amount. Lenders for buyer need to be able to calculate that into debt to income if assuming lease.
First off, the lease is between the current owner and the solar company. The sale of the house is between you and the current owner. You need to check before the sale what your situation would be with the solar company. Talk to the solar company. Regardless of the arrangement the current owner has with them, you can negotiate a new lease with them. South Dakota does not do net metering. You pay about 8 cents a KW for what you buy from the power company and they pay you less than 3 cents for what you put back into the system. I have a 10 KW solar system and it saves me about $125-150 a month on my electric bill. Obviously if I was renting the panels for $161 a month I would be losing money on the deal. I think you need to get a lawyer to look it all over because it looks like the current owner made a financial error and now wants you to bail him out. I would make an offer on the house based on NO solar and have it stated in the offer that you do not assume any debt related to the panels and that the current owner must satisfy any such debt. Make sure the title insurance specifically covers any claims on the house against you in regards to the solar. ((Sounds like a real mess to me, if you really want the house, get a lawyer.))
Thank you all again for all of the input. The deal is dead. RIP. Neither side will give. Seller's feel like paying their lease is giving away their panels for free. We just won't put out any money.
We will continue our search after Christmas. We are taking a house hunting break. There is nothing else out there for us and maybe spring will bring a different market. We have no pressure to leave the house we are renting.
I really wonder how many other offers were driven away. Now it makes sense why this house sat all summer in a red hot market where total junk was going the first week on the market.
The big issue is really the sellers aren't super motivated to move. They were planning on leaving the state in a couple of years. My agent thinks they listed the house because the market was so hot but really they aren't motivated to sell. So unless the stars align exactly as they want it, they aren't budging. Waste of time for us, and both agents.
I feel like my agent is annoyed with us for not just taking the deal and paying for the lease. When I feel like she should be more annoyed with the seller's end and herself for not knowing about solar nor being willing to learn.
Mike PRU this is what I found regarding disclosures in our state. They definitely don't have to be given prior to an offer. I honestly didn't think to ask. Next time I will though.
"In California, sellers must provide a Transfer Disclosure Statement (TDS) to any potential buyer whose offer has been accepted. This form asks specific questions about defects or malfunctions the seller may be aware of. It asks about the condition of the roof, the electrical wiring, appliances, smoke detectors and other relevant features of the property. "
Your agent sounds incompetent so I wouldn't worry about their feelings. Everyones time got wasted; wasn't your fault though.
With older panels; they'd have zero value to myself personally. There's been quick changes with solar panels over the past few years. If anything; I'd also expect a discount to fix the holes in the roof after removing them.
My Son's In-laws are considering solar and I am doing my best to bite my tongue.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
