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My Son's In-laws are considering solar and I am doing my best to bite my tongue.
If it weren't for the fact that they would want to install the panels on the front of my house (UGLY) and that I'm hoping to upgrade my house in a year or two . . . I would ABSOLUTELY have solar panels installed on my house. The recovery time around here because of tax incentives/credits is around 4-5 years. I'd also buy an electric car to make it a really great value.
My Son's In-laws are considering solar and I am doing my best to bite my tongue.
The issue isn't the solar system, it's the seller who wants to stick the buyer with paying off his debt.
I took over a solar lease when I bought my current house. I pay the company $164/month and my PG&E bill for most months is just the cost of the natural gas for the heat and water heater. At the end of the last billing period I got a $700 credit. Having solar also means I pay virtually nothing for gasoline for my PHEV.
Granted, some people will have horror stories, but it doesn't have to be that way.
Wow I didn't realize there were more replies here.
Someone asked to see the listing now that the deal is over. I thought about sharing it but I feel like it's an invasion of the seller's privacy since it's their address being posted and not mine. So, I'm sorry but I can't. And it's not the cool people here in this thread that's the problem. It's always the lurkers who do the creepy doxing stuff.
But anyway the house is still for sale. 90 days on the market when we made our offer. Now still sitting for 100k less than our offer was. He could have paid off his lease and walked with the extra 80k. His house would be sold by now.
I just posted about a friend of mine from my gardening group who went through a similar issue recently. Thought they found their dream house. Loan falls through, they get another loan, only 2 weeks out from original closing date. They are fully approved, their mortgage broker told the seller's agent on the phone they are only waiting on the appraisal. Appraisal is issued for the next day, and the closing date is 9 days away. The seller's agent says if they don't sign the loan contingency removal before the appraisal he's issuing a notice to perform and the deal will be over and they lose their deposit. Like, why, dude, why? You got a closing date on the horizon? Buyers won't remove loan contingency until after the appraisal. Deal falls apart. Now the house is sitting on the market, no back up offers, lowered price. And all because the seller's agent was more worried they were past the original contract date rather than just trying to get to the closing table.
This was again, a house that had been sitting for 60 days before they made the offer.
I've been a seller in a hot market. But I never took that opportunity to flex on my buyer just because. I cannot understand sellers who kill their own deals. And they are no better off after the deal is dead! Why just on principles? Like I said in the other thread. Your principles and $1 will buy you a McDonald's coffee.
I have zero regrets not taking over his solar lease payments for the next 16 years. This result of this market are some diva sellers unfortunately. I've seen so many houses "back on market" in our area. I now wonder how many sellers killed their own deal.
Wow I didn't realize there were more replies here.
Someone asked to see the listing now that the deal is over. I thought about sharing it but I feel like it's an invasion of the seller's privacy since it's their address being posted and not mine. So, I'm sorry but I can't. And it's not the cool people here in this thread that's the problem. It's always the lurkers who do the creepy doxing stuff.
But anyway the house is still for sale. 90 days on the market when we made our offer. Now still sitting for 100k less than our offer was. He could have paid off his lease and walked with the extra 80k. His house would be sold by now.
I just posted about a friend of mine from my gardening group who went through a similar issue recently. Thought they found their dream house. Loan falls through, they get another loan, only 2 weeks out from original closing date. They are fully approved, their mortgage broker told the seller's agent on the phone they are only waiting on the appraisal. Appraisal is issued for the next day, and the closing date is 9 days away. The seller's agent says if they don't sign the loan contingency removal before the appraisal he's issuing a notice to perform and the deal will be over and they lose their deposit. Like, why, dude, why? You got a closing date on the horizon? Buyers won't remove loan contingency until after the appraisal. Deal falls apart. Now the house is sitting on the market, no back up offers, lowered price. And all because the seller's agent was more worried they were past the original contract date rather than just trying to get to the closing table.
This was again, a house that had been sitting for 60 days before they made the offer.
I've been a seller in a hot market. But I never took that opportunity to flex on my buyer just because. I cannot understand sellers who kill their own deals. And they are no better off after the deal is dead! Why just on principles? Like I said in the other thread. Your principles and $1 will buy you a McDonald's coffee.
I have zero regrets not taking over his solar lease payments for the next 16 years. This result of this market are some diva sellers unfortunately. I've seen so many houses "back on market" in our area. I now wonder how many sellers killed their own deal.
thanks everyone for the replies!
I think for your friend the seller's agent was worried that the house wouldn't appraise for the loan amount and then there would be another round of negotiation that wouldpush it out further with a lower sale amount.
I think for your friend the seller's agent was worried that the house wouldn't appraise for the loan amount and then there would be another round of negotiation that wouldpush it out further with a lower sale amount.
yes exactly! That's what I thought too. But then the only way around that is you need a cash buyer. Because I've read that legally all jumbo loans require an appraisal. And in our county a jumbo loan is anything above $548k. Which means any single family home. This house my friend was buying was over a million. So the only way around an appraisal is a cash buyer. You can waive all the appraisals you want but if the house doesn't appraise the loan goes bye, bye. Or the buyer has to kick in money, which some loans do not allow at all or they have limits to which they allow a buyer to put out money.
Both her mortgage agent and her buyer's agent told her that the seller's agent was yelling about it being 2 weeks past their original closing date. Well now he's going to be many weeks past with an even lower selling price. So the seller benefits, how?
When I was a seller, my eye was on the prize the whole time. Just getting to that closing table. Had my house appraised too low, we would have offered to pay for another appraisal in hopes of the buyer's mortgage company using a new appraisal. If it still appraised low then I guess I'm lowering my selling price.
Anyway, we're back to looking and hoping this time we get a more reasonable seller. Any seller who freaks out over an appraisal of their home will be a hard pass for me.
Last edited by TheLonelyGoatherd; 09-27-2021 at 02:41 PM..
When I was a seller, my eye was on the prize the whole time. Just getting to that closing table. Had my house appraised too low, we would have offered to pay for another appraisal in hopes of the buyer's mortgage company using a new appraisal. If it still appraised low then I guess I'm lowering my selling price.
Anyway, we're back to looking and hoping this time we get a more reasonable seller. Any seller who freaks out over an appraisal of their home will be a hard pass for me.
Be careful making sweeping generalizations like this.
I just purchased a home earlier this year whose surrounding comps all appraised above the selling price, with this expected to have an effect on the appraised value of the home I bought. It didn't.
We did a conventional loan with no contingencies, expecting that we might have to make up some of the difference - which we did. However, surrounding comps now have our home appraising at or above what we paid, so we're comfortable with the additional funds we had to lay out.
Switching appraisers won't cure the problem. Their approach is very formulaic and it's likely a new appraisal would come back at or near what the previous appraisal came in at. Now you're out the additional monies for another appraisal and you've gained nothing - worst case, the new appraisal comes in lower - it can happen.
As a seller one has to be very well informed as to the value of their property and have realistic expectations. It's the ones like your solar lease folks who end up holding the bag because they were either poorly informed as to how their situation should have been marketed; or, they had unrealistic expectations of value. Either one is a recipe for disaster.
Glad it has worked out for you. Chalk it up as a learning experience and a "near miss".
Be careful making sweeping generalizations like this.
I just purchased a home earlier this year whose surrounding comps all appraised above the selling price, with this expected to have an effect on the appraised value of the home I bought. It didn't.
We did a conventional loan with no contingencies, expecting that we might have to make up some of the difference - which we did. However, surrounding comps now have our home appraising at or above what we paid, so we're comfortable with the additional funds we had to lay out.
Switching appraisers won't cure the problem. Their approach is very formulaic and it's likely a new appraisal would come back at or near what the previous appraisal came in at. Now you're out the additional monies for another appraisal and you've gained nothing - worst case, the new appraisal comes in lower - it can happen.
As a seller one has to be very well informed as to the value of their property and have realistic expectations. It's the ones like your solar lease folks who end up holding the bag because they were either poorly informed as to how their situation should have been marketed; or, they had unrealistic expectations of value. Either one is a recipe for disaster.
Glad it has worked out for you. Chalk it up as a learning experience and a "near miss".
RM
Ugh that would be awful to get another appraisal that's even lower. But I've often wondered why sellers will let a deal fall through if their house appraises low and then go back on the market for a lower price. Like why not lower your price and get the first buyer? Like this seller my friend was dealing with is now back on the market at a lower price. He could have at least given her the chance to see if the house would appraise with her mortgage company.
And my mortgage company told me that if a mortgage is over 1.5 million you'll need TWO appraisals! Not if the house is over 1.5M but if you are borrowing more than that you need two! I can't imagine how that could tie up a loan if one appraisal is good and one is low!
Ugh that would be awful to get another appraisal that's even lower. But I've often wondered why sellers will let a deal fall through if their house appraises low and then go back on the market for a lower price. Like why not lower your price and get the first buyer? Like this seller my friend was dealing with is now back on the market at a lower price. He could have at least given her the chance to see if the house would appraise with her mortgage company.
And my mortgage company told me that if a mortgage is over 1.5 million you'll need TWO appraisals! Not if the house is over 1.5M but if you are borrowing more than that you need two! I can't imagine how that could tie up a loan if one appraisal is good and one is low!
I think it's all about people and being stupid. For example like the seller in my neighborhood who listed their house FSBO at over 25% above the highest (recent) sale price of comps.
It sat and sat and sat. They finally gave in and listed it with a realtor - at the same price!
It finally went under contract about a month ago. I'm assuming it's going to close before the end of the month and I'll be waiting to see what the final selling price is. If they got their price - whoopeee! for all of us neighbors. If not, it will be interesting to see where it ended up relative to the ask.
Sometimes people just dig in their heels to be obstinate. As Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid."
I posted last week about a house we made an offer on. The house has been sitting in this hot market since May. We went for a showing and loved the house and then were told there is another offer. So we ended up offering 100k over their asking price. Zero contingencies. Waived appraisal. We have a clean offer and a solid mortgage.
We were moving along and then we were given paperwork from the escrow company. The paperwork has two pages. One page is a deal the seller signed with a solar company 8 years ago. They leased their solar panels for 40k. It says payments are $161 a month and that's it. Nothing that shows how it's structured or what they owe now.
The second page is blank and it just says at the top "assumption of lease" and they wanted us to sign this.
Then they told me I need to "apply" with the solar company to be their client.
Now I'm assuming that this lease is paid. I knew nothing about solar leases yesterday. ( now I do) So I call the company and find out it's a debt collector who is collecting debts for this company that went out of business in 2018. The debt collector said they aren't taking on new customers. All we can do is assume the lease of the seller.
We're then told the seller still owes 30k on this lease. We are told that there is still a company who services the old customers of the defunct solar company. We look online to read reviews and all we read are horrible reviews saying that if you have any issues, nobody is helping you. This 3rd party who is supposed to service the panels will do nothing.
I call other solar companies who tell me they will have nothing to do with old panels. They will gladly remove old panels, install new ones from them and then take me on as their customer. But they won't honor any warrantee or service another company's panels. Totally understandable!
So the seller's realtor is trying to tell me that I should pay because otherwise if the seller's pay, I get to keep these "free" panels.
Well isn't that how it is when you sell a house? What you put into the house, the buyer gets, right? I never thought of handing my buyers a bill when we sold our house and still owed for windows and a water filtration system.
Plus I'm being told that I could get brand new panels for less than this guy paid. And that financing for 5-10 years is actually a good deal. But these 20 year leases of the last decade were mostly shams.
So what do we do? Do we pay this just to not lose the house? We already went above asking on the price. I don't want this seller's bogus lease. I'd never in a million years sign a deal like that myself so why should I pay their debt?
My agent isn't in our corner at all. She seems like she's annoyed that we uncovered this. It's like she just wants us to sign so they can close.
AND to top it all off....I went back and checked the listing to see what it said about solar. And there is actually nothing in the listing about it! It's never mentioned. So that tells me that maybe this agent knew it was going to be a problem if they used solar as a selling point only to try and hoist the lease on a buyer.
I've never encountered this before. We don't have 30k to fling around. This would eat into our reno budget.
thanks all for any advice.
We had the same situation this week. The solar was never disclosed and I only found out about it when we had already paid for the inspection and I noticed the Solar City box on the side of the house. As we were leaving we ran into the owners and our real estate agent asked her about the solar and she said it was leased but didn't know more about it. Her husband did but he had gone into the house.
We had already submitted the offer a week before and not a single mention of this. My agent said that these kind of things come out during inspections. NO THEY DON'T. This is a financial obligation tied to the house and has absolutely nothing to do with an inspection.
I told our real estate agent MULTIPLE times over that we were not going to assume any kind of a lease for solar. We didn't even have any details at the time but for us, it's an additional liability for someone else's poor judgement (at least that's my feeling about it).
The agent then must have spoken to the lender who is a friend of hers and I get a bullying phone call from the lender basically telling me I'm an idiot for not signing it. That she knows about all these leases (and btw, it's not a lease. it's a PPA which is even worse) and starts reading the contract to me. I explained to her that it's a liability, it goes on my credit report as owing this money, if I die it's passed on to my son and I'm simply not going to pay for someone to put their equipment on my roof. It was a VERY EXPLOSIVE phone call and I basically hung up on her. How dare the lender call me to tell me what I need to do and how to manage my finances.
I then went back to the agent asking who she is representing because it sure wasn't me. If this had been disclosed up front we wouldn't be here and I'm not sure why I'm having to defend myself for not wanting to take this lease on. Go back to the seller!!!
Wow.....I'm so bitter right now......
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So, I'm sorry but I can't. And it's not the cool people here in this thread that's the problem. It's always the lurkers who do the creepy doxing stuff. 
