Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is excellent advice! But he won't go for it! They want us to pay that $8,000 of their debt.
These sellers are in total denial of the solar lease shams of the past decade. All they'd have to do is google it. I've made plenty of bad decisions in my life. Just own it and pay for it. I paid for mine. I'm not paying for his.
From what I'm reading it's actually bordering on being illegal what they are doing. I'm not sure though. Not that we'd sue. Just walk away. But from what I read with these leases, at closing they are treated completely separately from the sale of the house. No different than if I bought the house and took over the seller's car lease payments. Separate transactions.
So while a seller can ask the buyer if they want to take over the lease, the buyer can say no. And that should not affect the sale of the house and the accepted offer. Except with us it is affecting it! We are being made to feel like if we don't pay for this lease, the deal is off.
The lawsuits behind these leases is why I'm reading so many agents tell sellers to pay them off before selling or disclose it right up front before an offer is even made. They don't want any drama around these leases. And yet we somehow end up with both seller's and buyer's agent who are acting like it's their first day with this. I know more about solar leases than they do at this point.
ChrisCD, we were duped into making a higher offer because we were told of this sudden offer than came out of the woodwork. These invisible buyers were going to snatch up the house if we didn't give best and final offer. We got snowed on that part, I'll admit. I won't do that again on a house that's been sitting that long.
If I were you I would get the listing, disclosures and contract reviewed by a CA real estate attorney. He can advise you and, if necessary, send a letter to sellers. You really need someone who will advise you of your legal rights and put a stop to these negotiations by amatures. I have used a real estate attorney in the past and it was well worth the $$. It is important to get a real estate attorney and not just any attorney. A real estate attorney has experience with so many transactions that he/she can give you practical options on how to proceed.
Last edited by Maddie104; 09-03-2021 at 05:47 AM..
Exactly.
The people who get all hung up on the irrelevancies, "asking price" and "$100,000 over asking price," are weighing in as usual, but it is a package deal.
Exactly.
The people who get all hung up on the irrelevancies, "asking price" and "$100,000 over asking price," are weighing in as usual, but it is a package deal.
Yes. I like solar panels. I don't like the install cost and the way they finance them, but they aren't a totally sunk cost. (kind of like a swimming pool).
OP- They do provide clean energy and save on the utility bill. If you can get out only paying the 8k, would the utility savings make it worthwhile to proceed? If over the next couple of years they paid for themselves, it wouldn't be bad.
My bigger concern is you paid 100k over asking, not the 8k towards the solar panels. But more than likely the solar panels scared people off, maybe even cost them a few contracts so they may have created a bargain in a sense by preventing other people with the foresight of potential away. My MIL/FIL got a deal on a house 2 years ago where the seller had lost the previous 2 contracts in a similar way over SP. We had to agree to take over the lease, but the montly payments are offset by the utility savings and we got a decent price on the home in exchange for taking over the SP lease.
If it was a new-ish system, with a good company, I would suggest starting the negotiations over as it seems you got duped with the higher offer. But, it is an old, unsupported system. If they want to sell the house, they need to pay off the lease and get it removed. You may want to revise what you are willing to pay as well.
And as others noted, the price you pay becomes the basis of your Property Taxes going forward.
... I would suggest starting the negotiations over as it seems you got duped with the higher offer. ... You may want to revise what you are willing to pay as well.
...
cd :O)
I wouldn't assume he got duped. It is highly likely they did receive for multiple offers. The OP offered his best and the sellers determined it was better than the other buyers best. That horse is out of the barn, but the OP can still negotiate on the solar panels. It comes down to how much they want the house, ultimately.
True story - at the bottom of the market last time, I had a home that had been on the market about 9 months with, if I recall, an asking price of around 450k when our average sale was around 160k. I finally got an offer, and it was a good offer. That same afternoon, I got a 2nd offer that was almost identical. We called for best offer and the both backed out, not wanting to compete over a home. Couldn't get either of them back even at their original offer. They said they moved on, and I assume part of it is they didn't trust us anymore as they probably thought we were lying. I never sold that house, and both buyers missed out on what could have been a great home for them. Don't know what became of either buyer. I'm actually still facebook friends with the seller. He was a nice guy, felt terrible for him and me!
I wouldn't assume he got duped. It is highly likely they did receive for multiple offers. The OP offered his best and the sellers determined it was better than the other buyers best. That horse is out of the barn, but the OP can still negotiate on the solar panels. It comes down to how much they want the house, ultimately.
True story - at the bottom of the market last time, I had a home that had been on the market about 9 months with, if I recall, an asking price of around 450k when our average sale was around 160k. I finally got an offer, and it was a good offer. That same afternoon, I got a 2nd offer that was almost identical. We called for best offer and the both backed out, not wanting to compete over a home. Couldn't get either of them back even at their original offer. They said they moved on, and I assume part of it is they didn't trust us anymore as they probably thought we were lying. I never sold that house, and both buyers missed out on what could have been a great home for them. Don't know what became of either buyer. I'm actually still facebook friends with the seller. He was a nice guy, felt terrible for him and me!
I would say the OP got duped:
"We were moving along and then we were given paperwork from the escrow company. The paperwork has two pages. One page is a deal the seller signed with a solar company 8 years ago. They leased their solar panels for 40k. It says payments are $161 a month and that's it. Nothing that shows how it's structured or what they owe now.
The second page is blank and it just says at the top "assumption of lease" and they wanted us to sign this.
Then they told me I need to "apply" with the solar company to be their client."
"Having practiced real estate law in Southern California over the past 30 years, I have represented a variety of clients in real estate fraud cases. These clients, both plaintiffs and defendants, have run the gamut from individuals, families, investors, homebuilders and developers. Buyers of both residential and commercial properties oftentimes complain that they were unaware of certain facts when entering into their purchase transaction, and if they had known such facts, would have negotiated a lower price or, possibly, walked away from the transaction. Such disgruntled buyers learn of these “material” facts (facts that arguably affect the value or desirability of the property) during escrow, shortly after closing, or years later. Upon “discovery” of such undisclosed/misrepresented material facts, the buyer feels cheated and seeks justice, usually in the form of a court or arbitration proceeding for damages. Potential targets include not only the seller, but the seller’s broker/agent and, sometimes, even the buyer’s agent, each of whom has different duties of disclosure.
For realtors representing one or both sides, professional standards are imposed and duties to investigate and disclose material facts are heightened. Listing agents representing the seller typically rely upon their client’s disclosures and knowledge of the property, which is sometimes incorrect. It is oftentimes a triable issue of fact as to whether the agent/broker representing the seller should have known the accuracy of such facts, or was aware of other facts that would arguably lead a qualified professional to investigate and discover the correct facts or other undisclosed facts. Further, an opinion expressed by a real estate professional can constitute an actionable misrepresentation of fact, and it is oftentimes a question for the judge or jury to determine if a statement made to a buyer is mere “puffery” by a salesman (e.g., “this is a nice neighborhood”), which is not actionable, versus an actionable opinion of fact made without a reasonable basis (e.g., “the foundation is well built”). These professional duties are particularly heightened if there is a dual agency (whereby the agent represents both seller and buyer in the transaction), which is oftentimes not worth the extra commission given the potentially-conflicting fiduciary duties owed to the buyer (in addition to the seller)."
Furthermore, if the OP was told there was another offer (which induced the OP to increase her offer) and there was not, the realtor possibly breached his/her fiduciary duty to the OP.
The bottom line is the realtor/broker needs to determine whether or not, he/she failed in their duty to the OP and what he or she are going to do about it and/or what they need to do so the OP does not feel cheated. What is it worth to them?
Last edited by Maddie104; 09-03-2021 at 10:15 AM..
If this can help anyone else out there, here is some good info about solar....
1)Homeowner's get a credit on their electric bill for solar energy their panels generate. The average dollar amount is anywhere from $100-200 a month. $200 is really a best case scenario in a very sunny location year round. This house averages $160 in summer and $100 a month in winter.
2) yearly average is anywhere from $1200-2400 savings in electric. And the $2400 is really again, best case scenario. Average homeowner saves $1500 a year in electric
3) So if your electric bill is $300 a month and your panels earned you a $160 credit that month, you'd have to pay the $140 difference to the electric company.
4) but that's not all. If a home has a lease like this one, they still have to pay the $160 payment to the solar company
So doing the math, if the lease payment is $160, the only "savings" this house can get on electric is the what exceeds the $160. So the month the earned $180 in solar credit, when you minus the lease payment, they really only saved $20.
5) it's recommended you get maintenace to the panels anywhere from 2-4 times a year. Maintenance runs $150-$250 per visit. Not included in the solar lease. I don't know about finance packages. Sometimes they include maintenance and sometimes it's up to the owner to pay separate.
6) There is a balance on this lease of roughly $24,000 (they haven't given us the exact number) for 6 KW panels. I can go right now and buy brand new 6 KW panels for $14k-17k. Solar has gotten a lot cheaper over the years. And I could buy these new panels with a company still in business who I can get service from.
So in short, the lease deals just aren't good any way you slice them. I really did my research on this. Yes we can benefit from solar. But we cannot benefit from the structure of this lease. It's no different than a sub prime mortgage or a low down payment 8 year car loan, or financing a cell phone for 5 years, etc.
I also learned that these solar leases passed on to homeowner's often result in lawsuits down the road where the buyer ends up suing the selling agent, the homeowner and even their buyer's agent for not informing them. So the advice I've read straight from realtors in many blogs is for a seller, they encourage their seller or pay off these leases prior to selling or give a credit back to the buyer so they can pay them off. Do not ask your buyer to pay off your bad lease
And disclose the solar lease as early as possible so they aren't accused of any type of fraud. Do not wait until you are in escrow to tell your buyer.
And for buyer's, the agents tell them to not get involved in these lease deals. One agent said he has educated his buyers up and down of what they are getting into and not one went ahead and wanted the lease. The agent does this to protect the buyer and to protect himself.
These agents have done none of this. We aren't litigious but they can do this to the wrong person one day.
We are standing firm on not paying for the lease. This house needs work inside and out. I don't care if the solar stays with the house. This is no different than telling a buyer that you put your bathroom remodel on your high interest credit card so since they benefit from the remodel, they should help you pay the card. Nope.
But sounds like you are emotionally attached and it is your money.
Too much headache already.
eh...Don't lose focus on the forest because of a single crooked tree.
The seller is trying to squeeze...not wanting to pay the lease. Buyer is agitated about it.
But really, "No, I'm not assuming the lease." Seller is presumably under contract to deliver a house with a clear title. No need to draw it out any further than that. Come to the closing table on a house, with or without the panels, but certainly without a lease for me to assume or a lien on the house that needs clearing.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
