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We are standing firm that we want the house, we are asking for no money back for anything that they found during inspection ( 20 year old a/c and hot water and multiple windows that need to be replaced ) We are being really fair. To ask for MORE money for this lease is going to kill this deal for us. Because we are already mentally heading that way. We are giving them until this weekend to respond to our counter offer. They were going to give 5k credit back toward getting a new a/c and hot water. We are waiving that credit. I think we've given enough on our end.
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Originally Posted by TheLonelyGoatherd
You don't think it's shady to mention that they want us to pay an extra 20-30k two weeks AFTER our offer is accepted? They accepted our offer on August 17th. We find out we are supposed to pay this debt on August 30th. You see nothing wrong with that?
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I guess I'm dumb on this whole thing but why are you negotiating offers and waiting until this weekend to hear about your counteroffer if your original offer was accepted the 17th?
At this point, assuming any deal goes through to closing, I wouldn't be surprised to find they left some surprises for you to discover later on.
It is excellent advice! But he won't go for it! They want us to pay that $8,000 of their debt.
These sellers are in total denial of the solar lease shams of the past decade. All they'd have to do is google it. I've made plenty of bad decisions in my life. Just own it and pay for it. I paid for mine. I'm not paying for his.
From what I'm reading it's actually bordering on being illegal what they are doing. I'm not sure though. Not that we'd sue. Just walk away. But from what I read with these leases, at closing they are treated completely separately from the sale of the house. No different than if I bought the house and took over the seller's car lease payments. Separate transactions.
So while a seller can ask the buyer if they want to take over the lease, the buyer can say no. And that should not affect the sale of the house and the accepted offer. Except with us it is affecting it! We are being made to feel like if we don't pay for this lease, the deal is off.
The lawsuits behind these leases is why I'm reading so many agents tell sellers to pay them off before selling or disclose it right up front before an offer is even made. They don't want any drama around these leases. And yet we somehow end up with both seller's and buyer's agent who are acting like it's their first day with this. I know more about solar leases than they do at this point.
ChrisCD, we were duped into making a higher offer because we were told of this sudden offer than came out of the woodwork. These invisible buyers were going to snatch up the house if we didn't give best and final offer. We got snowed on that part, I'll admit. I won't do that again on a house that's been sitting that long.
Have they shown you electric bills yet? If not, ask again. I can't believe the run-around you're getting.
You also should ask for information about the panels to know what's on the roof in case it does stay with the house, You want to be able to look them up to know if they're a decent quality. Did the company you called come out yet? Did they give you any useful information or advice?
All panels are not the same We have the best quality panels in my development. Snow sticks to everyone except ours
I still hold your agent responsible for how this has all played out. ow did you come to offer $100k over? What kind of feedback did your agent give you about it or did they not give you any input?
Are you still looking at houses or have you stopped? If I were you I'd be looking again just in case this deal gets killed by either of you.
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Originally Posted by L00k4ward
And meanwhile the OP is in limbo instead of searching for another- better house without any headaches?
Depending where the house is- there could be eventually dismantling and disposing fees
I suggest the OP goes back to looking in their spare time just in case. It may be clear that they need to kill this sale.
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Originally Posted by Maddie104
I have to disagree that a hole in the roof is a comparable analogy. If there is a disclosure about the hole in the roof, you are free to repair it or replace it or leave the hole in the roof as you see fit. You are not assuming anyone's loan or told you must pay $xx to the seller. You are not financially obligated to do anything. I believe the disclosure stated the panels were leased. It does not state that the seller must assume the loan and the amount of the loan balance or any other amount must be paid to the seller.
Agree that the roof hole is totally different than assuming a solar panel lease, especially since there's now $28k left that needs to be paid for this house to close.
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Originally Posted by Maddie104
II fail to understand why you continue to put some of the burden on the OP (if that's who you mean by buyer's side). Yes, many situations could be diffused if a lay person investigates further but that doesn't relieve agents of their burden of disclosure per CA law. To use your analogy, a buyer could hire someone to check out the roof and diffuse a failure to disclose a hole.
Both agents failed the OP here, especially the buyers agent. We all know solar panels have been around a long time now. I'll be shocked if every agent has not run into some sort of issue with solar panels unless they;re brand new agents. The OP's agent should have inquired about them before the OP put in the $100k over asking offer. Mike is saying in reply #59 that the buyer holds responsibility because the OP received a disclosure and failed to investigate how that disclosure would impact their purchase..
The OP has an agent who is getting paid to know how to buy a house and for their knowledge of such to watch their clients back, to make sure they're getting a good house for a good price and that they're on the up and up. If the agent is not advising the buyer, then why exactly do we even need an agent? The OP could have done all they did by themselves since their paid agent is worthless.
I don't place any blame on the OP who has gone above and beyond to try to get specifics about these panels and solar in general. The seller should have called the solar company when they listed the house to know how much was still left on the lease. It's deplorable that the OP still doesn't know how much is left.
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Originally Posted by Maddie104
IIf the seller did have multiple offers (not sure this is factual) and the realtor couldn't close the deal, sometimes that says something about the realtor.
Lastly, a mistake has consequences. If the realtor(s) did fail in their duty to the OP, it might be a costly mistake.
I hope the OP goes to Zillow to leave feedback for both of the agents.
If the seller and OP can't come to an agreement, I guess we'll see how bad those agents want to close on the house and if they throw some money in the pot which would be their consequence for their roles in this deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLonelyGoatherd
I'll add some more info here. The house hit the market in may and has never been under contract until us. On the day we went for our showing, the listing agent said he had another offer.
That caused us to raise our offer to 100k over asking. We later regretted that. Because 24 hours later we never got an answer if they accepted our offer. And then finally our agent said they accepted right when the offer was going to expire. She said the seller's agent had a friend who said they wanted to buy the house but apparently they couldn't get their price up. So we felt duped. The seller's friend couldn't get his price to the asking price. And here we offered 100k over that. Really we could have offered asking price and STILL got our offer accepted. But anyway..... lesson learned about not giving in to pressure. Had this been the first weekend on the market then I wouldn't regret going over. But really sitting for 3 months? We should have tried to offer even a little below asking.
Anyway, with regards to having asked about the lease, when you don't know you don't know. I knew nothing of solar lease agreements before Monday. Nothing. And ALL they said to us was a quick "The house has a solar lease" but then we moved on during the showing. In the disclosure form all it said was "solar lease " and then the payment of $161 per month. So we really thought we just had to pay 161 a month. I asked how long the lease was for and seller's agent said they didn't know. Had to get back to us.
It wasn't until 2 weeks into the closing, this past monday that all this comes out. I went to do what I thought was setting up my account with the solar company only to find they are out of business. I call my agent and she tells me that the lease has 12 years to go and there is anywhere from 23k -30k still owed. (We STILL don't know the final amount) She tells me the seller doesn't want to pay any of the balance of the lease. So that's when I went into overdrive reading and learning all about these shady deals and the companies that went under.
So really, it's not like I knew anything about these solar leases and just turned a blind eye. But now that I know, I don't see how in the world the agents could let it get this far. I've read that many of these deals fall apart on closing day because the solar lease is separate from the house at closing.
Also nobody answered, but I got the impression reading that it's actually illegal to go so far as to accept an offer and then make the sale of the house contingent on the buyer either assuming the lease or helping contribute money toward it. The sale of the house is a separate entity. We made an offer on the house. It was accepted. We told them they can take the solar with them. Their contract that we finally received yesterday actually says the seller can take the panels to a new house, gift them, or get someone else to assume the lease. These panels do NOT have to stay on this house. So there is nothing shady on our end. We thought we were buying a house and now this lease deal gets thrown in.
And if we contribute to the buyout of the lease, we have to treat the money as a gift to the seller! It requires its own form.
We are standing firm that we want the house, we are asking for no money back for anything that they found during inspection ( 20 year old a/c and hot water and multiple windows that need to be replaced ) We are being really fair. To ask for MORE money for this lease is going to kill this deal for us. Because we are already mentally heading that way. We are giving them until this weekend to respond to our counter offer. They were going to give 5k credit back toward getting a new a/c and hot water. We are waiving that credit. I think we've given enough on our end.
Did the sellers agent get back to you about how long the lease is for and how much is left on it?
If they take the solar with them, make sure you stipulate the roof needs repaired where they made holes to mount it. Then there is the solar meter that looks like the electric meter and a huge power box to turn it on and off, I don't know what else it does. Both are in my basement. I assume the seller will also need those, so you'll need to cover your a$$ saying he needs a licensed electrician to remove them plus add you want the wall to be returned to normal. You'd have to look at that specific system to see what kind of holes it would leave.
Why did you waive the credit?
Which counter offer did you give them until this weekend and did you specify a date such as today at a certain time?
I'm not an agent, maybe an agent will say what I'm posting can't be done but if it was me, I would have my agent put it in writing that you want what you've asked for, the electric bills, whatever information for the solar. I would tell me agent that we are giving them 12 hours or however many you want to provide the information. I said 12, maybe even less if you really want out of the contract. If they do not provide it, I'd rescind my $8k offer for the panels which was crazy on your part since your offer is $100K more than the listing price. Did your agent give you any feedback about offering the $8k? Consider rescinding your $100K offer to maybe $25K above or I'd threaten to walk, killing the whole deal if that would make you the happiest. I don't know what you have invested in the house, I know you regret that $100K more, I would too. The solar panels may be your only hand to play to get the upper hand especially since the solar was not fully disclosed, it was you who went fishing for information. Shut the deal down ASAP if that's what you want and move on.
If I were you I would Google the solar company reviews. We were thinking about leasing solar but when looking at reviews from both direct customers as well as those who bought out the lease there are many that say they regret it. There are a lot of things they don't tell you, such as if you need roof repairs down the road, you have to pay the solar company to take the panels off and put them back on afterward (lots of people in reviews said they had been waiting for months for them to come and do that). You have to pay the solar company as well as the electric company. Many said the savings were not as promised, and in some cases they said the solar companies fees alsong with less savings than they anticipated, resulted in them paying more each month with the panels. We ended up changing our mind. We want solar so we can save money, but also because we would love a solar backup battery to run the house in an emergency, but after researching it, I don't want the panels unless we can afford to own them not lease them. It is also harder to sell a house with leased panels. Your buyers, even if they want it, have to be approved by the solar company to take over the lease, and many do not want a leased system.
If they can't transfer the lease to a new buyer, you have to pay thousands to have them remove the panels.
If the seller had financed the system (effectively what the lease is) the buyer would be expecting that loan to be paid off at closing. I see no reason to treat the lease any differently than if it had been a financed system with $30,000 balance.
Sellers often owe money on work or improvements to a house at closing and are expected to pay that off at closing.
Something I didn't remember being discussed is that the solar panel installer may have placed a lien on the home that would be due at closing unless the lease is assumable and the OP agrees to take it over. The title corporation would confirm this in their title search. The OP needs to know this prior to closing and ask them for confirmation.
I'll add some more info here. The house hit the market in may and has never been under contract until us. On the day we went for our showing, the listing agent said he had another offer.
That caused us to raise our offer to 100k over asking. We later regretted that. Because 24 hours later we never got an answer if they accepted our offer. And then finally our agent said they accepted right when the offer was going to expire. She said the seller's agent had a friend who said they wanted to buy the house but apparently they couldn't get their price up. So we felt duped. The seller's friend couldn't get his price to the asking price. And here we offered 100k over that. Really we could have offered asking price and STILL got our offer accepted. But anyway..... lesson learned about not giving in to pressure. Had this been the first weekend on the market then I wouldn't regret going over. But really sitting for 3 months? We should have tried to offer even a little below asking.
Anyway, with regards to having asked about the lease, when you don't know you don't know. I knew nothing of solar lease agreements before Monday. Nothing. And ALL they said to us was a quick "The house has a solar lease" but then we moved on during the showing. In the disclosure form all it said was "solar lease " and then the payment of $161 per month. So we really thought we just had to pay 161 a month. I asked how long the lease was for and seller's agent said they didn't know. Had to get back to us.
It wasn't until 2 weeks into the closing, this past monday that all this comes out. I went to do what I thought was setting up my account with the solar company only to find they are out of business. I call my agent and she tells me that the lease has 12 years to go and there is anywhere from 23k -30k still owed. (We STILL don't know the final amount) She tells me the seller doesn't want to pay any of the balance of the lease. So that's when I went into overdrive reading and learning all about these shady deals and the companies that went under.
So really, it's not like I knew anything about these solar leases and just turned a blind eye. But now that I know, I don't see how in the world the agents could let it get this far. I've read that many of these deals fall apart on closing day because the solar lease is separate from the house at closing.
Also nobody answered, but I got the impression reading that it's actually illegal to go so far as to accept an offer and then make the sale of the house contingent on the buyer either assuming the lease or helping contribute money toward it. The sale of the house is a separate entity. We made an offer on the house. It was accepted. We told them they can take the solar with them. Their contract that we finally received yesterday actually says the seller can take the panels to a new house, gift them, or get someone else to assume the lease. These panels do NOT have to stay on this house. So there is nothing shady on our end. We thought we were buying a house and now this lease deal gets thrown in.
And if we contribute to the buyout of the lease, we have to treat the money as a gift to the seller! It requires its own form.
We are standing firm that we want the house, we are asking for no money back for anything that they found during inspection ( 20 year old a/c and hot water and multiple windows that need to be replaced ) We are being really fair. To ask for MORE money for this lease is going to kill this deal for us. Because we are already mentally heading that way. We are giving them until this weekend to respond to our counter offer. They were going to give 5k credit back toward getting a new a/c and hot water. We are waiving that credit. I think we've given enough on our end.
So, they want a non-taxable "gift" and want you to attest that you received no consideration for the gift? If this is the case and you receive something of monetary value (i.e. solar panels) equal in worth, it does not qualify.
"Any transfer to an individual, either directly or indirectly, where full consideration (measured in money or money's worth) is not received in return."
Scroll to the middle of the page. You'll see the list of how to maintain the panels. We were told we should have someone come out twice a year. I was surprised too.
So, other than the nebulous “get them serviced twice a year” without saying what that is and after them saying panels are super low maintenance, there's nothing on there except basic stuff. Keep trees away, if pollen builds up, spray with soapy water, use the app to see production and other dead obvious things. It's a scam to make people pay money. There is no annual maintenance required.
To me it sounds like you’re too emotionally invested and from a logical standpoint it’s a bad deal; especially being $100,000 over asking with no other offers and months on the market and now this $20,000-$30,000 more they’re wanting.
I’d personally let the deal sink. Maybe in a month offer below asking.
Me? 100K over ask.............ummm that seems nuts, why not start at 25-50K?
Solar panels, NO CHANCE would I sign the lease/take it over. I would make the current owner pay them off, heck he can even take them with him!
Read the lease terms (or better yet have the title company clarify them). If they can't lien the property, then tell the previous owner the panels are his problem and then have them removed. If the leasing company calls/mails letters then you can say your house doesn't have panels Mr Previous Owner took them with him............
To me it sounds like you’re too emotionally invested and from a logical standpoint it’s a bad deal; especially being $100,000 over asking with no other offers and months on the market and now this $20,000-$30,000 more they’re wanting.
I’d personally let the deal sink. Maybe in a month offer below asking.
THIS
No way would I assume someone else's debt. There is a better house out there for you. And if you feel your agent has not represented you ethically, report her to the board of realtors. You should consult with a lawyer about this deal if you proceed.
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I was surprised too.
