Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-29-2021, 10:24 AM
 
15,638 posts, read 26,245,163 times
Reputation: 30932

Advertisements

We bought our house 32 years ago, and it was in cosmetically terrible condition.

If I chose to stay here it would undergo another remodel. I am not doing that — I’m moving. And frankly, other than paint I really don’t wanna do much to the next house.

I have far more important things to do with the rest of my life then fix up another house. I want to decorate and make quilts..
__________________
Solly says — Be nice!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-29-2021, 01:00 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
3,416 posts, read 2,453,636 times
Reputation: 6166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
Mostly good. Flippers often take homes that are not in livable condition that would not qualify for financing, and they fix the major items to make them available for first time or other financed homebuyers. That’s a valuable service.
Good point. I think a lot of people don’t realize a lot of these houses wouldn’t qualify for financing, so are they really taking away “affordable” homes to first time buyers?

I also think many people underestimate the cost, time, manpower, skillset (and tools) required, and conversely overestimate their skillset, time, and desire required? Painting (although that can be butchered), changing out fixtures, etc, can be done by most with little skill. But once you get into cabinets, flooring, tiling, etc, it can look shotty very quickly. Not to mention the can of worms that can be opened up (and accidents) that require expensive pros coming in (ie drilling into a water line).

With that said, I’ve seen many flips that are just as good (if not better) a deal as the dated one down the street for X cheaper? Unless you have the aforementioned, you’re not gonna come out any better hiring someone out to do the work. Granted you can slowly do these projects over time (and have a lower tax base by the lower purchase price), but if you plan on doing the updates in the near future you might just be better off paying the premium for having them done already. I won’t even go into living in a construction zone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2021, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
14,246 posts, read 14,724,563 times
Reputation: 22174
Flipping has become a "bad word" and while some flips are bad, it is not in all flips. If someone just "covers" over issues and resells, it is bad. If someone improves the property it can be good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2021, 01:54 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,088 posts, read 82,929,741 times
Reputation: 43660
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoSoup View Post
Good point. I think a lot of people don’t realize a lot of these houses wouldn’t qualify for financing, so are they really taking away “affordable” homes to first time buyers?
In a lot of cases... they're just loading up on an unsuspecting and desperate buyer.
Probably MOST when the term flipper is applied correctly.
It is NOT a re-habber. Don't give the bums cover.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2021, 02:08 PM
 
10,226 posts, read 7,576,434 times
Reputation: 23161
Quote:
Originally Posted by accord2008 View Post
I have been watching a lot of house flipping shows lately, and researched online. People say its taking out affordable starter homes for families, and with flipped houses selling for more, it makes real estate more expensive for all the neighborhoods it was sold at. Many homes that I watched were liveable, and doesn't need the kitchens and bathrooms to be torn down. Some family out there don't mind living in a house built in the 80s.

But on the other hand, what I noticed is that when a house flipper does his work, buying and selling will make RE agents get jobs, contractors, cleaners get work, home depot sells materials so their workers are getting work, and the material that's being made from whichever factory, gets work, on top of truckers transporting the materials. It's a system that employs alot of people when a flip goes on. In the end the flipper gets a profit, and many people get jobs. The person paying for all of this is the home buyer, usually 120-150K more in price compared to the house that was untouched (at least from what I saw on TV, average profit was 50K, spending 60K average for expenses, and the rest is agent fees)

So the big question is, is flipping good or bad once everything is factored in?
Bad. If there are a lot of flippers in an area, house selling becomes not homeowners selling at market value and buying at market value, but an area of sharks demanding certain prices based on sweat & money poured into a place, and holding out, and holding on, until the following year if necessary. Flippers have been known to buy multiple houses in an area, locking up the area for their own business, rather than homeowners selling and buying. Flippers thus end up raising home values falsely in areas where there are too many of them; prices that the buyers may not be able to sell for in a normal market in the future.

Also, after seeing a lot of flipped houses, the repairs and updates are not high quality, and are dull and look much like the other flipped houses. I saw flipped houses with the same gray paint and tiles because no doubt the flipping business bought a lot of overstocked gray tiles (or whatever) and have all that in a warehouse to use in as many of his flipped houses as possible. He also may not care about correcting the plumbing issues properly, like a homeowner would. He just needs it to work to the extent it passes a superficial inspection. Red alert for painted brick: A lot of flipped houses have whole brick exterior painted (often that same ugly gray paint)...be on alert for evidence of foundation problems being covered up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2021, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,366 posts, read 14,640,743 times
Reputation: 39406
My Mom recently bought a house that was falling apart. The water and gas were off because new pipes needed to be put in. It needs a new roof, the electrical has issues too, the foundation is cracked, really just about every major thing I can think of was wrong with it.

She sold a heap in a more expensive area, and bought another heap in a less expensive area. No financing. $50K less than a year ago. Can she afford to rehab it? No. Not really. She's scraped together enough to get the water on, but has no heat (and it is in a region that gets real winters) so she has had some kind of fireplace thing installed. It's rough.

But she "loves" this house, and plans to make it her life's work, and it's a roof (albeit a leaky one) over her head. It was empty and abandoned before her, homeless people would briefly squat in it but none sticking around to a point where they had to be removed with legal action.

I dunno. I like some of the projects I've seen regular American PEOPLE do, guys who usually were willing to put their own sweat in. What bothers me is and has been the "big capital" takeovers in the markets. If individuals are struggling to find a home that they can afford and buy (when they are well employed, responsible, have great credit, and even have a down payment saved up)...and when it's widespread enough that we're hearing about it everywhere...I want to know how much of the SFH inventory has been bought up by big money investors. Not that awesome plucky handyman who enjoys rehabbing homes, but the oligarch behind a shell org in another country looking for a way to park his wealth in America (housing is not regulated in the same way that other investment markets are.) Or the big corporation that instead of just being content owning hundreds of apartment complexes, is now buying up whole neighborhoods of SFHs to be rentals.

I think that these endeavors, as with many investment schemes in the housing market, need to be limited (by law) in scope, so as not to allow the biggest sharks to destroy the ability of all the other fish to have a shot at a decent life.

Also, I thoroughly disapprove of owners completely ruining the character of cool older homes when it is easily preservable...but that is just a personal, aesthetic judgment, not an ethical or social one. It's like defacing a piece of art that you own. Well...you own it. I guess you can. I seem to recall that a company bought a Picasso once and cut it up into tiny little pieces. Seems rather awful, though.

Can a person even get cool woodwork crafted for a new build these days? I'm sure it would cost a fortune, but is it even a thing? I wonder.

Oh but....just by the by...another of the "heaps" my Mom once owned when I was a teen, was actually a 200 year old house with gorgeous woodwork in Virginia. But previous owners had stained and painted over it many times. When we got there, it had layer upon layer of awful paint on all of the woodwork, the most recent being a dusty eggshell blue. Atrocious. But that's not all. I was once standing idly having a conversation with my hand on a doorknob, and I was picking at some paint that was chipping off heavily, with my thumbnail...and I felt something cold and looked down. Marble. There were beautiful marble doorknobs throughout the place that had also been painted over.

Point? Bad taste and the destruction or defacement of beautiful craftsmanship is nothing new, sadly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2021, 02:53 PM
 
Location: South Park, San Diego
6,109 posts, read 10,888,666 times
Reputation: 12476
I live in a 125 y.o. neighborhood with an unusual number of quality, period homes which also the past 20 years has been among the fastest appreciating areas in the country so we’ve seen more than our share of investor flips to its housing stock. I’d say it’s about 1/2 severely deferred maintenance cottages that, despite the generic Property Brothers open concept strip out all semblance of architectural detailing and plop in a generic white shaker cabinet kitchen with an island, the building’s structural and systems updating came with the price of otherwise insensitive design and finishes and 1/4, well maintained houses with great architectural details that unfortunately undergo the same generic flipper/stripper aesthetics and 1/4 sensitive, quality remodeling for the developers in the area.

It ends up taking 3/4 of potentially fine historic houses forever out of maintaining the characteristics that most people find desirable unless you beat the flippers to it and leaves 1/4 being overpriced for what you could have done yourself if perhaps on a longer time line.

Being an architectural designer I place more value to those historic and sensitive design aesthetics but I can’t deny that a lot of money gets shuffled around during the developer’s process within this frenzied market.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2021, 03:25 PM
 
2,512 posts, read 3,056,504 times
Reputation: 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berrie143 View Post
My husband and I made the decision long ago, even before we bought our house, to NEVER sell any home we own to a flipper, regardless if we would make more money. We believe it's more important to give a couple or family looking for a good home a chance to come into their own. The flippers can suck it.
Unfortunately that's no guaranty you'll avoid a flipper. Savvy flippers can use "straw men" (or in this case a straw family) to pose as the adoring perfect match looking for their forever home, but they are secretly working for flippers (or are crafty flippers themselves). It would be shocking to watch their personality transition at the closing table once the checks have been cut and it's a done deal. Check their phone to make sure they don't have a bulldozer or wrecking ball company on speed dial...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove View Post
That's my objection to house "flipping'. Too many flippers (in fact, I would hazard to say the majority) put their money into cosmetic upgrades for the flip like new carpet, laminate floors, granite counters, SS appliances, etc. while leaving older plumbing, poor yard drainage, old or installing the cheapest HVAC systems, old wiring, etc. The problem arises when first time home buyers, in particular, are dazzled by the shiny new "upgrades" but in a few years are strapped by major investments in basic infrastructure fixes or replacements. I would much rather buy a home with a new roof, heating and cooling system, water heater, gutters and downspouts, and good drainage but needing cosmetic upgrades that I could do to my taste and at my own pace and budget.
Flippers do this because it is what sells, and most buyers are not smart/educated/experienced to see past the superficial upgrades and are dazzled by them to the extent they don't see more serious issues. Also, smarter experienced buyers that would prefer more infrastructure and less cosmetic work to be performed can be a pain in the *** throughout the whole buying process due to the very nature they are more knowledgeable and demanding.

That's the same reason stupid action/romantic comedy movies do better at the box office over well acted higher quality films.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2021, 04:36 PM
 
1,088 posts, read 442,468 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoSoup View Post

With that said, I’ve seen many flips that are just as good (if not better) a deal as the dated one down the street for X cheaper? Unless you have the aforementioned, you’re not gonna come out any better hiring someone out to do the work. Granted you can slowly do these projects over time (and have a lower tax base by the lower purchase price), but if you plan on doing the updates in the near future you might just be better off paying the premium for having them done already. I won’t even go into living in a construction zone.
I have friends that bought old houses, lived in them while doing renovation, and in the end it's their forever home. One friend bought a house for 500K and spent 100K on materials, and would be worth 750K if he bought it already flipped. He spend a good year with his wife fixing the house.

Another friend bought a house for 800, spent 120K, and similar flipped house would be 1.2 million. They spent 1.5 years doing so.

Both of them lived switched rooms to live in and do work of the other. It still is cheaper than buying a flipped house where they would never be able to afford it. The biggest thing is to make sure the house doesn't have asbestos if you were to go this route. The good thing about flippers is they Know what works, and have experience with the cheapest contractors that does the job somewhat decently. Someone who doesn't have the connections will choose a bad contractor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2021, 05:16 PM
 
6,853 posts, read 4,850,706 times
Reputation: 26355
I think it's irrelevant. I appreciate old houses, at least ones that were quality builds to start with. They aren't all made by skilled craftsmen by any means. I am thinking of moving and I would like older. Preferably one that has been well maintained by the owner and doesn't need a lot of work. I admit I would be skeptical of an older home that has obviously been completely redone cosmetically. What is it hiding? I'd rather hire the cosmetic stuff done myself, but have a record that the house has been replumbed. I'd rather refinish old wood floors even if they aren't perfect than have what passes for wood floors these days.

I have enough wood molding stored (for years) in the shop to redo an entire house. Lots of furniture grade lumber, too. Finding people that are good craftsmen on the other hand ...arrrgggh!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top