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Old 12-31-2021, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Mr. Roger's Neighborhood
4,088 posts, read 2,557,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joylush View Post
A flipper is someone who sells a home after rehabbing it. They typically buy homes in such disrepair they aren’t eligible for a mortgage or insurance. Thus, they put homes back on the market that otherwise would not be sellable to anyone but someone who doesn’t need a mortgage or insurance.

All buyers have equal opportunities. The seller is going to sell to whoever has the best offer and quickest closing date to meet their needs.

The last house I sold had many offers. Only one was from an investor and it was the lowest so I did not entertain it.

I took the highest offer most likely to close.
Yes and no re: flippers rehabbing houses.

In one of my lines of work, I am in and out of houses that are being put on the market. It's mixed bag around here in terms of houses that are obviously being flipped.

There are some houses where flippers *are* doing the neighborhood a favor with some of those properties being just short of being improved only by the addition of some gasoline and a well-placed match before they were purchased and made livable once more. There's one up and around the block from my own house that aptly fits this description. It was a pretty nasty rental before and it was obvious that time and money had been put into the house to transform it into a fresh and lovely family home. The only thing worth preserving was the woodwork on the staircase, so it was. Ditto for a house in a neighborhood in which I once lived that had quite literally been an empty brick shell with small trees growing within it. There was very little, if anything left to preserve in that house save the back staircase. Both flips were nicely done and went beyond just "lipstick on a pig" cosmetics in that all of the mechanicals, wiring, plumbing, roofing, and windows had been replaced, with the latter fitting the era of the house.

Other houses are utterly destroyed by flippers. Covering hardwood flooring with "luxury" vinyl plank, removing perfectly good original details that speak to the era of the house, unnecessarily removing walls to create one cavernous space, painting over tile in the bathrooms, putting in cheap cabinetry in the kitchen and vanities in the bathrooms, etc. There's one flipper in the area whose projects are easily identified as he always replaces those large living/dining room picture windows with a side-sliding window instead of a single or double hung window. Those sliders always look like hot garbage on a vintage house.

Sometimes, it's the best of both worlds when any updates are thoughtfully made in consideration of the era of the house. Those I consider to be true restorations rather than flips as the money and time that it takes to properly do this to a house doesn't appeal to most flippers who are after a fast and relatively easy buck. There are a few of these craftsfolk (not flippers) around here; it's always a pleasure to be in one of their properties.
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Old 12-31-2021, 11:05 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
32,636 posts, read 47,986,069 times
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Usually the house being flipped is in bad repair and dragging the neighborhood down. Once it is improved and back on the market, the general neighborhood is improved. Wrecks and eyesores in the neighborhood are not good for the neighborhood.


No flipper gets any sort of special "flipper" price on real estate. If a flipper can buy a wreck of a house, every member of the general public has the exact same opportunity to buy that house for that price. There is no such thing as a flipper price and a different price for a potential owner occupant. Whoever is selling the house gets what he feels is his best price for it and doesn't care who is buying the house.


Anyone who doesn't want to pay the price for a fully renovate house is welcome to find the wreck, buy it, and do the renovations themselves.


Adding: there is a difference in price betwen flipper price and owner occupied price in HUD repo properties. The owner occupied has first crack at the house and gets it for a lower price. If the house doesn't sell to an owner occupant in the first couple of weeks, then the flippers are allowed to bid.
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Old 12-31-2021, 03:22 PM
 
860 posts, read 438,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
Usually the house being flipped is in bad repair and dragging the neighborhood down. Once it is improved and back on the market, the general neighborhood is improved. Wrecks and eyesores in the neighborhood are not good for the neighborhood.


No flipper gets any sort of special "flipper" price on real estate. If a flipper can buy a wreck of a house, every member of the general public has the exact same opportunity to buy that house for that price. There is no such thing as a flipper price and a different price for a potential owner occupant. Whoever is selling the house gets what he feels is his best price for it and doesn't care who is buying the house.


Anyone who doesn't want to pay the price for a fully renovate house is welcome to find the wreck, buy it, and do the renovations themselves.


Adding: there is a difference in price betwen flipper price and owner occupied price in HUD repo properties. The owner occupied has first crack at the house and gets it for a lower price. If the house doesn't sell to an owner occupant in the first couple of weeks, then the flippers are allowed to bid.
Reminds me of my one and only “flip”. I bought the house next door to me which sat of the market in 2020 and needed to be torn down it was in such disrepair. And this is coming from someone who can fix/repair just about anything. I dreaded the thought of anyone trying to rehab it and or renting it out after attempting to make it habitable. I didn’t want having neighbors who would be attracted to something like this. So, I made an offer and bought the house after giving the people who inherited time to entertain other offers. I paid $85,000 for the house in a hot Florida market and immediately had it demolished. I sold the empty lot to a builder a year later (this summer) for $125,000 and it’s under contract now for $495,000. I improved the neighborhood and my own home value in the process. And made a little for my efforts and foresight.

My neighborhood has single family homes and duplexes in it. I was more than willing to build a duplex to provide someone with a more affordable living option but zoning told me nope, single family only.

I’ve done many major quality remodels, kept them as rentals and subsequently sold them. I am unimpressed with buyers. They don’t care that you used a quality cast iron bathtub and not a cheap steel one. They don’t care if you used quality porcelain tile and the floors instead of cheap ceramic or vinyl. They don’t care if the kitchen cabinets are all solid wood. They don’t care if you added wind mitigation features to the home to reduce the insurance costs. They don’t care if you upgraded the ductwork to match the needs of newer energy efficient AC units or added extra insulation for energy conservation.

All they care about is that your appliances are stainless steel, your walls are gray and the house has a dishwasher.

So I will continue to remodel and improve houses I keep to meet my standards. But if my goal was strictly resale, I’d think twice about taking the time and efforts to make the improvements that nobody values anyway.
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Old 12-31-2021, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,981 posts, read 6,733,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escanlan View Post
As stated when it is done properly your expectations above are real as far as how it can help.


When it is not done properly the only one that really benefits are the investors that put a lot of nice paint on junk to make it look good.
It also benefits the new owners who want a turn key house and not a ton of projects. I bought a home that needed everything but a new foundation and after 10 years of projects I am done...... If the flipper only paints the house then the buyer should take that into consideration when they submit their offer........I think this thread is more about group A getting outbid by group B more than anything else. If a house is on the market then both flippers and owner-occupiers can compete, sometimes one will outbid the other but that is for the seller to determine based on their own criteria. There are such things as pocket listings but I'm not sure if one side has the advantage there or not.
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Old 12-31-2021, 06:49 PM
 
Location: PNW
7,492 posts, read 3,223,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joylush View Post
Reminds me of my one and only “flip”. I bought the house next door to me which sat of the market in 2020 and needed to be torn down it was in such disrepair. And this is coming from someone who can fix/repair just about anything. I dreaded the thought of anyone trying to rehab it and or renting it out after attempting to make it habitable. I didn’t want having neighbors who would be attracted to something like this. So, I made an offer and bought the house after giving the people who inherited time to entertain other offers. I paid $85,000 for the house in a hot Florida market and immediately had it demolished. I sold the empty lot to a builder a year later (this summer) for $125,000 and it’s under contract now for $495,000. I improved the neighborhood and my own home value in the process. And made a little for my efforts and foresight.

My neighborhood has single family homes and duplexes in it. I was more than willing to build a duplex to provide someone with a more affordable living option but zoning told me nope, single family only.

I’ve done many major quality remodels, kept them as rentals and subsequently sold them. I am unimpressed with buyers. They don’t care that you used a quality cast iron bathtub and not a cheap steel one. They don’t care if you used quality porcelain tile and the floors instead of cheap ceramic or vinyl. They don’t care if the kitchen cabinets are all solid wood. They don’t care if you added wind mitigation features to the home to reduce the insurance costs. They don’t care if you upgraded the ductwork to match the needs of newer energy efficient AC units or added extra insulation for energy conservation.

All they care about is that your appliances are stainless steel, your walls are gray and the house has a dishwasher.

So I will continue to remodel and improve houses I keep to meet my standards. But if my goal was strictly resale, I’d think twice about taking the time and efforts to make the improvements that nobody values anyway.

Not that they don't care. They don't know. It's only after owning a home for a while that you learn all this stuff (if you're not a tradesman). You'd have to educate them to get them to appreciate the difference. I put high quality upgrades in a tract home and I am hoping that I can somehow get part of that money out (if I ever sell; but, I kind of dread the uninitiated that might make up the buyer pool).
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Old 12-31-2021, 09:37 PM
 
860 posts, read 438,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Not that they don't care. They don't know. It's only after owning a home for a while that you learn all this stuff (if you're not a tradesman). You'd have to educate them to get them to appreciate the difference. I put high quality upgrades in a tract home and I am hoping that I can somehow get part of that money out (if I ever sell; but, I kind of dread the uninitiated that might make up the buyer pool).
I must respectfully disagree. Even when they know, they really just don’t care. The best way to sell your home is to put that lipstick on that pig.

Literally, I’ve seen it first hand. You could have two very similar houses (area and size) and they will pick the one with the older roof, older windows, older AC unit that has gray paint and new vinyl floors over the one with the newer roof, newer windows, newer AC unit with older carpeting and beige walls.
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Old 12-31-2021, 10:51 PM
 
2,336 posts, read 2,564,089 times
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How does this affect society? And why should society care?
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Old 12-31-2021, 10:57 PM
 
11,025 posts, read 7,832,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I also wonder how much material that in fact still has useful life left to it, winds up in a dumpster/landfill because of these flips. I think that some will be more inclined to take usable materials to ReStore and such, but the big investor in a hurry will just roll up a dumpster and start gutting... No?

I dislike waste, and it seems like there may be a lot of that happening potentially.

Obviously if the materials are contaminated in some way, like with mold or asbestos, that's a whole different story.
What's the alternative, a tear down? In many cases that's it. With that comes much more material to be disposed of and much more material needed to build an entirely new structure with everything in it. In addition, even a modest renovation will replace things like windows, insulation and HVAC systems with much more energy efficient choices. That's good for everyone and it's ongoing.

Houses don't last forever and most people do not want to live the lifestyle of a hundred years ago or more. People have been renovating, improving and altering their dwellings since there have been people. That will never change; there's no need to try to make time stand still for anyone other than yourself.
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Old 12-31-2021, 11:11 PM
 
1,088 posts, read 442,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonahWicky View Post
How does this affect society? And why should society care?
Because there are tons of people who worked hard, and saved for years wishing to buy a house and start a family. Flippers take out many liveable houses and make them much more expensive. It's bad for society if someone can't buy a house , have a family, and pass it on to their next generation. It's bad for educated parents who make above average wages to never ever in their lifetime buy a house to start a family, even a small sfh in a bad neighborhood. This trend is happening in many cities already.

On the flipping shows, there are many houses where I see the kitchens and bathrooms, it's not too bad, and I wouldn't mind living in those houses. It's heartbreaking to see them demolish a kitchen or bathroom that is still useful. There are many houses that's built in the 60s, 70s, where if I were to buy it, I would just paint the countertops, cabinets of the kitchens and bathrooms, and paint the walls if it's a weird color. This would just take 1K in paint and my labor. It's better than not having options to find a older home and having to pay 150K extra for a flipped house. There are families out there that would rather live in a outdated house than renting their whole lives.

Last edited by accord2008; 12-31-2021 at 11:29 PM..
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Old 12-31-2021, 11:20 PM
 
1,088 posts, read 442,468 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joylush View Post
I must respectfully disagree. Even when they know, they really just don’t care. The best way to sell your home is to put that lipstick on that pig.

Literally, I’ve seen it first hand. You could have two very similar houses (area and size) and they will pick the one with the older roof, older windows, older AC unit that has gray paint and new vinyl floors over the one with the newer roof, newer windows, newer AC unit with older carpeting and beige walls.
I bet some buyers of flipped houses will find out that after 10 years, their vinal plank or laminate flooring will have scratches or discoloration, and it's time for a new flooring. To really do it right, hardwood flooring should be done, but for flippers it's a investment that won't pay off, and buyers either don't know about this and figure it looks nice, or they won't pay even more money for a flip with hardwood flooring.


As far as houses go, people will buy the one that looks better, even though the other one has a new roof. It's why flippers make money and some are good at it. It's like owning a car and changing the oil with the most expensive synthetic oil and filter, It might cost 80$ more per oil change, or 300 more per year. After like 5 years it's 1500 more, but when you try to sell the car, you will never get that money back, even if you tell the dealer or buyer you put the best oil in there, they probably wont believe you, and just look at the blue book for the miles, condition, year, etc.
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