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Old 11-02-2023, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
43,265 posts, read 77,043,330 times
Reputation: 45612

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Quote:
Originally Posted by illtaketwoplease View Post
One agents opinion. The old way of doing things is on the chopping block.
I read both.
There's a huge contingent of consumers who will embrace any ax grinding hollow rhetoric.
They often victimize themselves with their wishful ignorance.
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Old 11-02-2023, 05:01 PM
 
51,651 posts, read 25,790,245 times
Reputation: 37884
So this just puts into legal precedence what should be going on anyway according to industry standards.

Seems reasonable.
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Old 11-02-2023, 05:21 PM
 
51,651 posts, read 25,790,245 times
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Spouse was in the military. Bought and sold homes every three years or so. All with agents. Some better than others.

Buyers agents varied widely. Some were absolute whack-a-doodles. One kept insisting on showing us old mobile homes out in the country. Another one showed us a home with dead cats in it. I'm not kidding. We stepped inside and there were cats so dead they were flat all over the place. Must have been a dozen at least. It was horrible.

But the last one we worked with previewed homes, sent us photos, found answers to questions, then one day she told us we should come up and look at this one. She was right.

She helped negotiate a fair price and figure out solutions to problems that came up in the inspection.

Whoever paid her, she was worth every penny.
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Old 11-03-2023, 10:17 AM
 
18,559 posts, read 7,362,427 times
Reputation: 11372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
For consumers not following real estate events, there are a couple of class action lawsuits going on right now regarding commissions.

The first trial was the Sitzer trial. Closing arguments ended yesterday and in three hours of deliberation today, the jury found for the plaintiffs (the sellers) against NAR, Keller Williams, and Berkshire Hathaway and awarded 1.8 billion in damages. There will be appeals, of course.

RE/Max and Anywhere (Coldwell Banker, ERA, etc), settled earlier instead of going to trial.

There is another class action lawsuit Moehrl vs. NAR that is still slated for trial, but for those of you looking to buy or sell in the future, things will likely be changing on commissions.

Buyers need to know that it is likely that buyer agent fees will likely be negotiated directly with your buyer agent. So when you go to pick your buyer agent, I strongly encourage you to shop around and find a good agent or if you do hire a rookie, negotiate their fee because you will likely be paying it directly on your closing statement. I think during this slow period buyer agent fees will stay competitive, but when the market picks up again, I can see buyer agent fees coming way down.

Read any buyer agency agreements and don't lock yourself into long-term contracts. Only some states require buyer agency agreements, and the rest will likely be following suit here soon. I know it is coming in Oregon and agents won't be able to show you a house unless they have you under contract as a client. Keep that in mind if they tell you they need an agreement to show you a home. It is coming in the next few years.
Would you care to explain the alleged basis for the lawsuit? As a lawyer, I would guess that these suits consist of a bunch of lawyers making up a flimsy pretext to collect a lot of fees without the "plaintiffs" actually deserving or receiving anything.
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Old 11-03-2023, 11:16 AM
 
Location: MID ATLANTIC
8,673 posts, read 22,905,462 times
Reputation: 10512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman View Post
You actually clicked on the link? Having been fooled into wasting time many times by Yahoo and similar sites into clicking on articles about RE written by people claiming to be RE "experts" despite the fact they have never been in the industry, I didn't bother. They are usually pretentious know it alls that present their misguided opinions as expert facts, irrevokably damaging unsuspecting readers. I don't think I've read a good or accurate article about RE from any of those types I just described.
WINNER, WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!! I will never get back those 5 or 6 minutes. I was scrolling for sampling size, looking for the empirical data, found this and realized I wasted my time:

Quote:
The study’s authors addressed this concern by conducting a survey. Of the 184 respondents who purchased a home within the last five years,
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Old 11-03-2023, 11:27 AM
 
Location: MID ATLANTIC
8,673 posts, read 22,905,462 times
Reputation: 10512
Maybe I am over simplifying or this is a Captain Obvious point that I missed somewhere. The way I've always viewed this as is the listing agent represents seller, buying agent represents buyers (that's one obvious point, but not the one I am aiming for). Each agent is to do their best to represent their party. Just by the assignment of rolls, the buyer's agent is an adversary of the seller. The buyer's agent's job is to squeeze every nickel out of the seller for his client. Why should a seller pay for someone working against him? Forget about what is in the listing agreement, that's not the point. I think this dove-tails on dual agency, or should have been resolved with dual agency. Not quite the same thing, but the concept is there.
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Old 11-03-2023, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
43,265 posts, read 77,043,330 times
Reputation: 45612
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartMoney View Post
Maybe I am over simplifying or this is a Captain Obvious point that I missed somewhere. The way I've always viewed this as is the listing agent represents seller, buying agent represents buyers (that's one obvious point, but not the one I am aiming for). Each agent is to do their best to represent their party. Just by the assignment of rolls, the buyer's agent is an adversary of the seller. The buyer's agent's job is to squeeze every nickel out of the seller for his client. Why should a seller pay for someone working against him? Forget about what is in the listing agreement, that's not the point. I think this dove-tails on dual agency, or should have been resolved with dual agency. Not quite the same thing, but the concept is there.
Of course, the buyer covers the commissions.
So, flip the question : Why does the buyer pay their adversary?

Why do lenders and appraisers conspire to increase buyer costs by allowing commissions to be paid with loan funds?
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Old 11-03-2023, 02:24 PM
 
5,959 posts, read 3,706,857 times
Reputation: 16985
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
Of course, the buyer covers the commissions.
So, flip the question : Why does the buyer pay their adversary?

Why do lenders and appraisers conspire to increase buyer costs by allowing commissions to be paid with loan funds?
Do you intend the word "covers" to mean "pays"? If so, then I disagree with your first statement. If the appraiser is doing the job he is supposed to do, then it makes no difference whether there is a realtor's commission involved or not. The property will appraise for what the data show regardless of any realtor involvement. At least, that's the way it's supposed to work. I can't be certain about the ethics or competency of any appraisers or loan officers.

Re the second bolded part of your post: The commission comes out of the Seller's funds. It's an expense/debit to the Seller on the closing statement just as is a payoff of an existing mortgage or any other Seller related expense.

If the Buyer has signed something that makes him responsible to pay some money to his realtor, then that's his problem/concern. It has nothing to do with the Seller or his expenses or what he has agreed to pay.

As for appraisals, an appraisal shouldn't vary in value/amount regardless of whether there is a realtor involved in the deal or not. Of course, my statements apply to situations where the appraiser and the loan officials are honest with their numbers and dealings. Any sort of collusion or "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" relationships between the realtors, appraiser, and loan officials are excluded since I'm assuming that we are dealing with honest people which, of course, isn't always the case.
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Old 11-03-2023, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
43,265 posts, read 77,043,330 times
Reputation: 45612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
Do you intend the word "covers" to mean "pays"? If so, then I disagree with your first statement. If the appraiser is doing the job he is supposed to do, then it makes no difference whether there is a realtor's commission involved or not. The property will appraise for what the data show regardless of any realtor involvement. At least, that's the way it's supposed to work. I can't be certain about the ethics or competency of any appraisers or loan officers.

Re the second bolded part of your post: The commission comes out of the Seller's funds. It's an expense/debit to the Seller on the closing statement just as is a payoff of an existing mortgage or any other Seller related expense.

If the Buyer has signed something that makes him responsible to pay some money to his realtor, then that's his problem/concern. It has nothing to do with the Seller or his expenses or what he has agreed to pay.

As for appraisals, an appraisal shouldn't vary in value/amount regardless of whether there is a realtor involved in the deal or not. Of course, my statements apply to situations where the appraiser and the loan officials are honest with their numbers and dealings. Any sort of collusion or "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" relationships between the realtors, appraiser, and loan officials are excluded since I'm assuming that we are dealing with honest people which, of course, isn't always the case.
You are confused. Victimized by the lies from NAR, et al.

1. Appraisers comp from like transactions. IOW, if they are appraising an MLS listed transaction, ALL the comparable sales have commissions baked into the contract price, so the appraisal is inclusive of commissions and the price is inflated.
If there are no commission costs in a transaction, comping against commission-inflated pricing is a disservice to lenders and consumers.

2. What "seller funds?" ALL of the funds for a residential real estate transaction are brought by the buyer and it is a shell game to run all of the commissions through the seller side of the CD.
It has to be done that way because lenders will not allow commission as a buyer closing cost, although they certainly inflate buyer costs.
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Old 11-03-2023, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
10,966 posts, read 21,972,507 times
Reputation: 10659
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
So this just puts into legal precedence what should be going on anyway according to industry standards.

Seems reasonable.
Except people/agents are either ethical or not ethical. If someone is unethical, they won't a silly little thing like laws or contracts get in their way. Aside from that, I think most people already followed those guidelines except for the rhetoric about free buyer agency. So basically, the corporation agreed to do things they were already doing. They aren't going to actually control the individual offices and agents.
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