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Old 10-09-2008, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Cranford
234 posts, read 535,327 times
Reputation: 62

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So, we are still fighting to get our mortgage commitment... and now we are being told that the underwriters are questioning the appraisal.

Here is what the Underwriters comments say:
"Appraiser correct/clarify sale date comp 3 diff than public records (records show sold 11/07 not 3/08). Provide additional recent sale to support value. Appraiser cont. Comment subject sold twice this year with increasing prices & what renovations done by current seller vs prior. AVM or 2nd appraisal may be required to support value."

That's verbatim... now I am starting to think appraiser is in mortgage broker's pocket and would appraise anything for whatever is the requested mortgage amount.

What rights do we have to demand an independent appraisal??? We already paid for the first one, do we have to pay for the second one as well?

Also the "appraised value" is exactly the amount we offered. Coincidence?
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:02 AM
 
Location: OK
2,825 posts, read 7,513,903 times
Reputation: 2056
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
So, we are still fighting to get our mortgage commitment... and now we are being told that the underwriters are questioning the appraisal.

Here is what the Underwriters comments say:
"Appraiser correct/clarify sale date comp 3 diff than public records (records show sold 11/07 not 3/08). Provide additional recent sale to support value. Appraiser cont. Comment subject sold twice this year with increasing prices & what renovations done by current seller vs prior. AVM or 2nd appraisal may be required to support value."

That's verbatim... now I am starting to think appraiser is in mortgage broker's pocket and would appraise anything for whatever is the requested mortgage amount.

What rights do we have to demand an independent appraisal??? We already paid for the first one, do we have to pay for the second one as well?

Also the "appraised value" is exactly the amount we offered. Coincidence?
Not having seen the appraisal, based on the UW comments it seems that one of the comparables was sold several times in the recent past, each time for a higher price, without any comments from the appraiser as to what the reason would be. If the appraiser cannot discover the reason, or the reason is not solid, he/she should NOT have used that sale.

It could very well be that you got yourself a sloppy appraiser. You may want to have the appraisal reviewed by a competent appraiser. Please DM me if you want more information.

Quote:
Also the "appraised value" is exactly the amount we offered. Coincidence?
Can be, but frequently is not.
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,107,183 times
Reputation: 27718
My guess..they think one of your comparibles is a flipper and want to rule out bogus over-value ?
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:07 PM
 
1,151 posts, read 2,983,976 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
So, we are still fighting to get our mortgage commitment... and now we are being told that the underwriters are questioning the appraisal.

Here is what the Underwriters comments say:
"Appraiser correct/clarify sale date comp 3 diff than public records (records show sold 11/07 not 3/08). Provide additional recent sale to support value. Appraiser cont. Comment subject sold twice this year with increasing prices & what renovations done by current seller vs prior. AVM or 2nd appraisal may be required to support value."

That's verbatim... now I am starting to think appraiser is in mortgage broker's pocket and would appraise anything for whatever is the requested mortgage amount.

What rights do we have to demand an independent appraisal??? We already paid for the first one, do we have to pay for the second one as well?

Also the "appraised value" is exactly the amount we offered. Coincidence?
You can get an independent appraisal if you want. You pay for it - you choose the appraiser. But that may not convince the bank, because your appriaser may not be on the bank's list of approved appraisers.

My first question to the bank is whether the appraiser they used was on their approved list. If he/she was, I would demand that the bank either get the appraiser to fix the deficiencies or get another appraisal if they are not satisfied - in either case, at no additional cost to you. Of course, the bank may just say "no thanks." And I doubt that you would have any effective recourse against the bank other than reporting it to your state's bank regulators and trying to get your money back. It's probably several hundred dollars, so it would be important enough for me to make some calls to the bank and lean on someone to complete the job (at no additional cost to you). At the end of the day, though, the golden rule normally prevails -- he who has the gold makes the rules. If you want to do business with this bank and they require another appraisal at your cost, you'll have to pay it.

Good luck!
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 16,906,746 times
Reputation: 7110
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
Here is what the Underwriters comments say:
"Appraiser correct/clarify sale date comp 3 diff than public records (records show sold 11/07 not 3/08).
ANYTHING unusual needs a comment. A complete 3 year listing history and sales history for the subject needs to be reported and discussed as well as a 12 month history FROM THE PRIOR SALE DATE on all comparables.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
Provide additional recent sale to support value.
If comp 3 is suspect, then they SHOULD request an additional comp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
Appraiser cont. Comment subject sold twice this year with increasing prices & what renovations done by current seller vs prior.
Wow.....the subject sold twice in a year and he didn't comment on what was done to make it worth more? What did they do to make it worth more? Grace it with their presence? or Actually do some improvements? And don't tell me they painted.....I can buy oooops paint for $4.00 and a $12 case of beer will get my cousin to push a brush.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
AVM or 2nd appraisal may be required to support value."
duh, ya think? Why the He|| don't you get your own appraisal ASAP!!!!. My first thought, as an appraiser who served on the hearing panels for the OREAB is that that appraiser needs remedial education. As an appraisal instructor, I don't want him in my class. If I were a buyer, the FIRST thing I would do is hire a designated, certified RESIDENTIAL appraiser, tell him I want an indepth summary report, I will pay you $500 for it, and I want it by the end of the week. Before I commit to $XXX,XXX I will spend $XXX to make sure I am not getting taken to the cleaners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
That's verbatim... now I am starting to think appraiser is in mortgage broker's pocket and would appraise anything for whatever is the requested mortgage amount.
I am thinking that the appraiser is not only in the mortgage brokers pocket, but that the price of the property is probably inflated. I am sure they want you to pay 10% more for the property than it's worth....they get an extra point or two on the back side that is not reported on the HUD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
What rights do we have to demand an independent appraisal???
None. You have the right to get an independent appraisal and you should put it in your contract that if YOUR appraiser disagees with the value of the lenders appraisal that the selling price is reduced by the amount of represented by your appraiser. You pay $500 a month for health insurance you may not need, pay $500 for equity insurance and get an appraisal done for your own information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
We already paid for the first one, do we have to pay for the second one as well?
Of course. But it is cheaper than paying $20,000 too much for a house, isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
Also the "appraised value" is exactly the amount we offered. Coincidence?
No. It is called Pre-determined value and is against the law.




Quote:
Originally Posted by azwildcats70 View Post
So, we are still fighting to get our mortgage commitment... and now we are being told that the underwriters are questioning the appraisal.
For dam good reason..............
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Old 10-11-2008, 08:10 AM
 
1,151 posts, read 2,983,976 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
You have the right to get an independent appraisal and you should put it in your contract that if YOUR appraiser disagees with the value of the lenders appraisal that the selling price is reduced by the amount of represented by your appraiser.
Lots of good information in your post, Good. I wouldn't push this one too hard, though. Only a very naive seller would agree to this. And for good reason. Who in their right mind would let some stranger make a binding decision about how much money they are allowed to sell their home for? Just because the appraisal won't support the loan doesn't mean that someone with extra cash won't be willing to pay your price.

The most you should be looking for if your appraisal comes in too low for your loan is a termination right. If I'm the seller, I require that you do that within the loan contingency period. Otherwise, your stuck coming up with cash to make up the difference.
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 16,906,746 times
Reputation: 7110
I should have added an "or I walk" comment.

For most the country it's a buyers market. If the price isn't right FOR THE BUYER, the the buyer needs to find one of the other half million houses on the market where the price IS right.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:34 AM
 
340 posts, read 1,308,232 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Also the "appraised value" is exactly the amount we offered. Coincidence?
When we bought this past summer, the mortgage lender's appraiser did a "drive by" appraisal that came in low (around $10,000 below our offer). The mortgage lender then required the appraiser to do a full appraisal, where the appraiser discovered what we already knew. The seller had made an addition to the house and had put in lots of upgrades. The tax records had a smaller square footage for the house (about 150 square foot), and this was the basis of the drive by appraisal. Comps for the area X square footage from tax records.

The "real" appraisal revealed the upgrades and additional square footage, and the appraiser priced the house at the offer price. This actually put the sell price below comps for the area by about $3000. I wondered about the appraisal matching the offer price then, and I still do. But mostly I wondered about an appraiser in this day and age who would do a drive by appraisal and a mortgage lender who would accept it. Especially in light of the fact that my mortgage lender has a policy of holding and servicing their mortgages.

I didn't know about all this until the appraisal was in the hands of the mortgage lender. At that point, my out on failure to appraise was gone. It would have been to my benefit to have the lower appraisal so I could hold the buyer's feet to the fire, because I certainly would have walked if the seller wouldn't have come down to the appraised value.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:45 AM
 
Location: OK
2,825 posts, read 7,513,903 times
Reputation: 2056
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofMGrad92 View Post
But mostly I wondered about an appraiser in this day and age who would do a drive by appraisal and a mortgage lender who would accept it. .
Amen. I won't do them for mortgage purposes. In fact, my listed fee for a 2055 (drive-by) and a 1004 (URAR) is the same. The only differences between a 2055 and a 1004 is that with the latter I get to measure the house and do an interior inspection.

Because the differences ARE so small, I always wonder about those MB/lenders who insist on a "drive by".
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:01 AM
 
1,151 posts, read 2,983,976 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofMGrad92 View Post
I didn't know about all this until the appraisal was in the hands of the mortgage lender. At that point, my out on failure to appraise was gone. It would have been to my benefit to have the lower appraisal so I could hold the buyer's feet to the fire, because I certainly would have walked if the seller wouldn't have come down to the appraised value.
I'm not privy to your sales contract, but in standard TX contracts, the "failure to appraise" termination right is contained in the financing contingency provision. This contingency period is not a time during which the buyer is entitled to validate its offer price as you are suggesting. It is a time during which the buyer is supposed to use good faith efforts to obtain loan approval. If the appraisal came in below the contract price, but the lender was still willing to make the loan (because, for example, the buyer was paying a large amount down), the buyer would not have the right to terminate.

We do, however, also have a straight option period that can be negotiated during which inspections, appraisals, etc. can be done. If you don't like something (anything), you can terminate during this period. But it is typically much shorter (7-10 days usually), and most people don't get appraisals completed during this time, relying instead on their lender to do it.
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